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> Whats next Aluminium smelting? Oil production? Big box retail? Onion Futures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O

by ben_w 6mo ago

> Whats next Aluminium smelting? Oil production? Big box retail? Onion Futures: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act There's lots of things where it's not particularly difficult for very rich groups, sometimes even very rich individuals, to be able to afford so much of a thing that by buying it they damage opportunities for everyone else. This is a known limitation of the free market, and why almost nowhere is actually a perfectly free market, only more or less free.

protocolture 6mo ago
> to be able to afford so much of a thing that by buying it they damage opportunities I dont see the relevance. Like we aren't talking about a rich person buying batteries to just hoard electricity. Presumably people benefit from telecommunications and aluminum products. If AI fails to prove itself, these datacenters are going to find other customers. The Peoples Data Centre requires just as much electricity as a private one.
- ben_w 6mo ago
  > Like we aren't talking about a rich person buying batteries to just hoard electricity. We're talking about them raising electricity prices and cutting off domestic users: https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-residents-power-source/ https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-... and https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/26/ai-data-center-frenzy-is-pushing-up-your-electric-bill-heres-why.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/26/ai-data-center-frenzy-is-pus... > Presumably people benefit from telecommunications and aluminum products. Most of the world's aluminium, by a large margin, comes from China; my understanding is that they had the de-facto planning permission requirement to have a direct connection to a non-grid electricity supply for much of their growth era. Furthermore, to the point of "people benefit": the US has tariffs on Chinese aluminium (and PV, EVs), supposedly because the Chinese government was distorting the market. Saying "people benefit" doesn't mean there's no market distortion going on. > If AI fails to prove itself, these datacenters are going to find other customers Or just close down; it wouldn't be the first time the US had ghost towns when businesses fail. In the meantime, sudden unexpected higher energy bills. Conversely, if AI does what it promises to do, replace human labour, the new equilibrium of electricity prices* is whatever balances human and AI productivity. Depending on how much compute this needs, and how much electricity this compute needs, and how fast new power supplies can be built and at what cost, this can be anything including driving electricity prices up far beyond the point where normal people can afford to keep their refrigerators running**. I'm lucky enough to live in a different continent and enjoy both cheap plug-and-play PV and also the output of these data centres without the higher energy bills; but even I can see this is a massive market distortion, one affecting multiple levels of which domestic electricity is simply the top level of this increasingly suspicious Jenga tower. I wonder how much further it will go before it collapses? * and human wages, but that's a different topic. ** or may force humans to accept lower and lower wages until they not only can't pay for refrigerators, or indeed rent, but also food and literally starve; but again, different topic.

by ben_w 6mo ago

protocolture 6mo ago

> to be able to afford so much of a thing that by buying it they damage opportunities I dont see the relevance. Like we aren't talking about a rich person buying batteries to just hoard electricity. Presumably people benefit from telecommunications and aluminum products. If AI fails to prove itself, these datacenters are going to find other customers. The Peoples Data Centre requires just as much electricity as a private one.

ben_w 6mo ago
> Like we aren't talking about a rich person buying batteries to just hoard electricity. We're talking about them raising electricity prices and cutting off domestic users: https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-residents-power-source/ https://fortune.com/2026/05/12/lake-tahoe-data-center-49000-... and https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/26/ai-data-center-frenzy-is-pushing-up-your-electric-bill-heres-why.html https://www.cnbc.com/2025/11/26/ai-data-center-frenzy-is-pus... > Presumably people benefit from telecommunications and aluminum products. Most of the world's aluminium, by a large margin, comes from China; my understanding is that they had the de-facto planning permission requirement to have a direct connection to a non-grid electricity supply for much of their growth era. Furthermore, to the point of "people benefit": the US has tariffs on Chinese aluminium (and PV, EVs), supposedly because the Chinese government was distorting the market. Saying "people benefit" doesn't mean there's no market distortion going on. > If AI fails to prove itself, these datacenters are going to find other customers Or just close down; it wouldn't be the first time the US had ghost towns when businesses fail. In the meantime, sudden unexpected higher energy bills. Conversely, if AI does what it promises to do, replace human labour, the new equilibrium of electricity prices* is whatever balances human and AI productivity. Depending on how much compute this needs, and how much electricity this compute needs, and how fast new power supplies can be built and at what cost, this can be anything including driving electricity prices up far beyond the point where normal people can afford to keep their refrigerators running**. I'm lucky enough to live in a different continent and enjoy both cheap plug-and-play PV and also the output of these data centres without the higher energy bills; but even I can see this is a massive market distortion, one affecting multiple levels of which domestic electricity is simply the top level of this increasingly suspicious Jenga tower. I wonder how much further it will go before it collapses? * and human wages, but that's a different topic. ** or may force humans to accept lower and lower wages until they not only can't pay for refrigerators, or indeed rent, but also food and literally starve; but again, different topic.