4 ms·

Most of the big consumer VPNs include "privacy" with an implication of anonymity in their marketing, so it shouldn't really be surprising

by curtisf 5mo ago

vintermann 5mo ago
"Not knowing who a user is" privacy may still be useful even if you don't have, "not knowing two users are the same user" privacy.
unselect5917 5mo ago
It is privacy with respect to your ISP. A lot of ISPs are pretty shitty. Some will rat out their own customers to copyright mongrels and threaten to disconnect you - which is important when there's a local monopoly. Things you connect to or log in to are clearly going to be able to ID you at least with in the context of the login that you use regardless of what the VPN does. I'm logged into HN through Mullvad as it happens. I usually leave it on regardless of what I'm doing because what I'm doing isn't my ISP's business even though I'm pretty happy with them.
- lucb1e 5mo ago
  > what I'm doing isn't my ISP's business even though I'm pretty happy with them. But it is Mullvad's? I think I'm from a spoiled part of the internet (as in, with an ISP that legit cares) so maybe I'm biased, but swapping one vendor out for another seems relatively no-op to me. Is it that there is a bigger pool of VPN providers than ISPs available at a given address (even when including (M)VNOs), and so it's easier to find one that sounds like they care as much as the ISP should have?
SXX 5mo ago
But what privacy do you think majority of people who not doing something badly illegal expect from VPNs? Most likely these people just look to hide their torrenting, saying political shit on Twitter from employer and not share their choice of porn with local ISP. Also just adding one more layer between them and occasional scammer who can sometimes infer more broad geodata from their IP leaked from yet another database. Oh and now to avoid "Show your ID" page on the same porn sites. It works well enough for this goal. Not everyone needs NSA-proof solution. PS: Obviously more tech savvy people understand importance of hiding traffic on public WiFi, but I doubt average Joe the VPN user will buy VPN for this.
- illiac786 5mo ago
  Source? Why not “I don’t want to get profiled”?
  - hdgvhicv 5mo ago
    The mass surveillance industry doesn’t rely on ips or even cookies to track you.
    - illiac786 5mo ago
      That seems like a huge bet. I don’t bet on this, I am careful about cookies and my source IPs. Do you have any facts? I know they really on _additional_ stuff, but do you have sources showing that they never use cookies or source IPs?
      - schubidubiduba 5mo ago
        He said they don't rely on it. They can use fingerprinting. Obviously they'll still use any other data you give them, including IP addresses or cookies.
        illiac786 5mo ago
        Ok, what was his point then? “They don’t rely on it, so it’s useless to obfuscate it”, or “but you should keep obfuscating it” or something else? I am missing the relation to my original comment then.
      - fragmede 5mo ago
        That's a different claim though. Obviously they'd use cookies and source IPs when they're available, because why not use all of the information available to you. That browser fingerprinting is good enough that neither of those sources are necessary is for you to decide on whom to believe. On that topic, though, is the Mullvad Browser, who's entire intention is to defeat browser fingerprinting.

Most of the big consumer VPNs include "privacy" with an implication of anonymity in their marketing, so it shouldn't really be surprising

by curtisf 5mo ago

Most of the big consumer VPNs include "privacy" with an implication of anonymity in their marketing, so it shouldn't really be surprising

vintermann 5mo ago

"Not knowing who a user is" privacy may still be useful even if you don't have, "not knowing two users are the same user" privacy.

unselect5917 5mo ago

It is privacy with respect to your ISP. A lot of ISPs are pretty shitty. Some will rat out their own customers to copyright mongrels and threaten to disconnect you - which is important when there's a local monopoly. Things you connect to or log in to are clearly going to be able to ID you at least with in the context of the login that you use regardless of what the VPN does. I'm logged into HN through Mullvad as it happens. I usually leave it on regardless of what I'm doing because what I'm doing isn't my ISP's business even though I'm pretty happy with them.

lucb1e 5mo ago
> what I'm doing isn't my ISP's business even though I'm pretty happy with them. But it is Mullvad's? I think I'm from a spoiled part of the internet (as in, with an ISP that legit cares) so maybe I'm biased, but swapping one vendor out for another seems relatively no-op to me. Is it that there is a bigger pool of VPN providers than ISPs available at a given address (even when including (M)VNOs), and so it's easier to find one that sounds like they care as much as the ISP should have?

SXX 5mo ago

But what privacy do you think majority of people who not doing something badly illegal expect from VPNs? Most likely these people just look to hide their torrenting, saying political shit on Twitter from employer and not share their choice of porn with local ISP. Also just adding one more layer between them and occasional scammer who can sometimes infer more broad geodata from their IP leaked from yet another database. Oh and now to avoid "Show your ID" page on the same porn sites. It works well enough for this goal. Not everyone needs NSA-proof solution. PS: Obviously more tech savvy people understand importance of hiding traffic on public WiFi, but I doubt average Joe the VPN user will buy VPN for this.

illiac786 5mo ago
Source? Why not “I don’t want to get profiled”?
- hdgvhicv 5mo ago
  The mass surveillance industry doesn’t rely on ips or even cookies to track you.
  - illiac786 5mo ago
    That seems like a huge bet. I don’t bet on this, I am careful about cookies and my source IPs. Do you have any facts? I know they really on _additional_ stuff, but do you have sources showing that they never use cookies or source IPs?
    - schubidubiduba 5mo ago
      He said they don't rely on it. They can use fingerprinting. Obviously they'll still use any other data you give them, including IP addresses or cookies.
      - illiac786 5mo ago
        Ok, what was his point then? “They don’t rely on it, so it’s useless to obfuscate it”, or “but you should keep obfuscating it” or something else? I am missing the relation to my original comment then.
    - fragmede 5mo ago
      That's a different claim though. Obviously they'd use cookies and source IPs when they're available, because why not use all of the information available to you. That browser fingerprinting is good enough that neither of those sources are necessary is for you to decide on whom to believe. On that topic, though, is the Mullvad Browser, who's entire intention is to defeat browser fingerprinting.