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I sometimes have a hard time trying to fathom all the regulations imposed on the teams. Can anyone shed some light on eg. the dangers of wing design?

ImprovedSilence 14y ago
If not done right, it will not make enough downforce to corner properly. The cars are designed to have no air underneath them, so as to create a vacuum to the track. If air does get underneath them, the car becomes (briefly) an airplane... edit: A lot of the regulations are also based around making the cars somewhat slower(safer), so they dis-allow massive wings so you can't fly around corners at 200per... And then everyone trys to take advantage at any cost, so they bend the rules to the limit. To the point where it could almost be seen as cheating.
- wmeredith 14y ago
  There are some really crazy stories around bending the rules. Or pushing human technologies to the limit to achieve the smallest advantages. Here is one of my favorites: I read a really interesting print article a few years ago about one of the big F-1 teams (McLaren?) creating the first carbon fiber transmission housing. This was a HUGE deal at the time because in F-1, the transmissions are structural component of the cars. They bear huge stresses for extended periods of time. The team spent a couple years and tens of millions of dollars reinventing the way carbon fiber is manufactured. It was all very hush, hush. In the article itself, the picture of the transmission was taken from about 20 feet away, because that's as close as the team would let anyone from the magazine get to it. It looked like the made the camera man stand across the shop from the thing and take his pic with a portrait lens. The big take away at the end of the article was that they saved 50 lbs or so off the weight of the transmission... but the car was already under weight regulations. So they were adding 50lbs to the lead plate that was already on the bottom of the car so it makes weight. The net benefit of all the money and time spent on the CF transmission was to lower the center of gravity of the car 3/4 of an inch and that was considered a huge advantage until the other teams do likewise.
  - paddy_m 14y ago
    The rulebook specifically forbids the teams from using depleted uranium for ballast. I think most of the teams use tungsten, it's more dense than lead. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tungsten+density+vs+lead+density http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tungsten+density+vs+lea... A carbon fiber transmission, properly constructed would allow for tighter aerodynamic packaging. Adrian Newey (the current Red Bull designer) is famous for making cars fragile and very aerodynamic. Sometimes his tight packaging causes his cars to overheat.
    - camtarn 14y ago
      Argh, fat fingered the downvote button - Android browser's hit area guessing can be infuriating at times. So I'll just have to say in a comment that your comment about DU ballast made me grin :)
  - mkuhn 14y ago
    As far as I know they not only lower the center of gravity with the ballast but they also can put the weight where they want it to be and move the center of gravity to achieve a better weight distribution. So the effect on handling is more than just lowering the center of gravity but your point still stands :-)
- paulyg 14y ago
  A big reason things like side skirts and vacuum cars were banned was that those technologies were very good at making downforce, until you hit a bump or curb big enough to break the "seal" between the car and ground. Then most of your downforce went away in an instant. Not a very safe thing. Yes most of the regulation changes in the last 20 years have been focused on taking away downforce b/c without constraints the engineers could design cars that would corner with such force the drivers would be on the verge of blacking out. The other focus is to try and make passing easier. When you depend on downforce for grip and you get right behind another car, in their air wake, your downforce goes down b/c not as much air is going over the wings. Your grip goes down and you can't pass that car.
grotos 14y ago
I don't know it this is what you need to know, but: As far as the front wing is concerned: - the bigger, the more complicated means more downforce thus enabling drivers to go faster in a corner but such wing leads to more dangerous situations, such as puncturing oponent's tires. The bigger wings were introduced in 2009 when many parts of the cars were streamlined in order to improve overtaking and reduce dependency on aerodynamics. The rear wing: - DRS was introduced 2 years ago. It stands for Drag Reduction System - driver can "open" rear wing to reduce drag (downforce is reduced). Basically means that rear wing is split horizontally into two smaller wings. This system improves top speed so it can be only used on straight lines. The failure of this system can lead to lost of control of the car in non-straight parts of the circuit. The usage of this system is heavily reduced by regulations.
- marklabedz 14y ago
  A brief aside into the history of aerodynamic advances in auto racing....Chaparral Cars were some of the first race cars to be designed with a focus on the aerodynamic forces at play. While primarily competing in Can-Am instead of F1, they introduced cars with movable aerodynamic surfaces (Chaparrel 2E) and even a partial vacuum (Chaparrel 2J) to increase downforce.
josephlord 14y ago
If the wing breaks mid corner in a high speed section the results could be spectacular as it would result in a sudden, unexpected and uneven (front/back) loss of grip. If a front wing comes off it can wedge under the car lifting the front wheels off the ground removing most of the braking effect. Near the end of the straight this could mean 200mph towards the scenary. Generally there are limits imposed so the cornering speeds don't get too high.

ImprovedSilence 14y ago

If not done right, it will not make enough downforce to corner properly. The cars are designed to have no air underneath them, so as to create a vacuum to the track. If air does get underneath them, the car becomes (briefly) an airplane... edit: A lot of the regulations are also based around making the cars somewhat slower(safer), so they dis-allow massive wings so you can't fly around corners at 200per... And then everyone trys to take advantage at any cost, so they bend the rules to the limit. To the point where it could almost be seen as cheating.

wmeredith 14y ago
There are some really crazy stories around bending the rules. Or pushing human technologies to the limit to achieve the smallest advantages. Here is one of my favorites: I read a really interesting print article a few years ago about one of the big F-1 teams (McLaren?) creating the first carbon fiber transmission housing. This was a HUGE deal at the time because in F-1, the transmissions are structural component of the cars. They bear huge stresses for extended periods of time. The team spent a couple years and tens of millions of dollars reinventing the way carbon fiber is manufactured. It was all very hush, hush. In the article itself, the picture of the transmission was taken from about 20 feet away, because that's as close as the team would let anyone from the magazine get to it. It looked like the made the camera man stand across the shop from the thing and take his pic with a portrait lens. The big take away at the end of the article was that they saved 50 lbs or so off the weight of the transmission... but the car was already under weight regulations. So they were adding 50lbs to the lead plate that was already on the bottom of the car so it makes weight. The net benefit of all the money and time spent on the CF transmission was to lower the center of gravity of the car 3/4 of an inch and that was considered a huge advantage until the other teams do likewise.
- paddy_m 14y ago
  The rulebook specifically forbids the teams from using depleted uranium for ballast. I think most of the teams use tungsten, it's more dense than lead. http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tungsten+density+vs+lead+density http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=tungsten+density+vs+lea... A carbon fiber transmission, properly constructed would allow for tighter aerodynamic packaging. Adrian Newey (the current Red Bull designer) is famous for making cars fragile and very aerodynamic. Sometimes his tight packaging causes his cars to overheat.
  - camtarn 14y ago
    Argh, fat fingered the downvote button - Android browser's hit area guessing can be infuriating at times. So I'll just have to say in a comment that your comment about DU ballast made me grin :)
- mkuhn 14y ago
  As far as I know they not only lower the center of gravity with the ballast but they also can put the weight where they want it to be and move the center of gravity to achieve a better weight distribution. So the effect on handling is more than just lowering the center of gravity but your point still stands :-)
paulyg 14y ago
A big reason things like side skirts and vacuum cars were banned was that those technologies were very good at making downforce, until you hit a bump or curb big enough to break the "seal" between the car and ground. Then most of your downforce went away in an instant. Not a very safe thing. Yes most of the regulation changes in the last 20 years have been focused on taking away downforce b/c without constraints the engineers could design cars that would corner with such force the drivers would be on the verge of blacking out. The other focus is to try and make passing easier. When you depend on downforce for grip and you get right behind another car, in their air wake, your downforce goes down b/c not as much air is going over the wings. Your grip goes down and you can't pass that car.

grotos 14y ago

I don't know it this is what you need to know, but: As far as the front wing is concerned: - the bigger, the more complicated means more downforce thus enabling drivers to go faster in a corner but such wing leads to more dangerous situations, such as puncturing oponent's tires. The bigger wings were introduced in 2009 when many parts of the cars were streamlined in order to improve overtaking and reduce dependency on aerodynamics. The rear wing: - DRS was introduced 2 years ago. It stands for Drag Reduction System - driver can "open" rear wing to reduce drag (downforce is reduced). Basically means that rear wing is split horizontally into two smaller wings. This system improves top speed so it can be only used on straight lines. The failure of this system can lead to lost of control of the car in non-straight parts of the circuit. The usage of this system is heavily reduced by regulations.

marklabedz 14y ago
A brief aside into the history of aerodynamic advances in auto racing....Chaparral Cars were some of the first race cars to be designed with a focus on the aerodynamic forces at play. While primarily competing in Can-Am instead of F1, they introduced cars with movable aerodynamic surfaces (Chaparrel 2E) and even a partial vacuum (Chaparrel 2J) to increase downforce.

josephlord 14y ago

If the wing breaks mid corner in a high speed section the results could be spectacular as it would result in a sudden, unexpected and uneven (front/back) loss of grip. If a front wing comes off it can wedge under the car lifting the front wheels off the ground removing most of the braking effect. Near the end of the straight this could mean 200mph towards the scenary. Generally there are limits imposed so the cornering speeds don't get too high.