4 ms·

No, what we knew then is still what was known then. Today is different, and seemingly they've committed to the rewrite, so now it makes sense that people have s

No, what we knew then is still what was known then. Today is different, and seemingly they've committed to the rewrite, so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment.

tasuki 6mo ago
Maybe the people who "were overreacting" just happened to have more foresight than you and me? Perhaps they saw where this was heading, and that led to their "overreaction"?
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  In what way? Foresight about what? It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now.
  - rcxdude 6mo ago
    The difference is an assumption of good faith, for the most part, and that is to some extent modulated by how reasonable people believe a large scale LLM and/or rust rewrite is a reasonable idea.
  - tasuki 6mo ago
    > It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now. Yes - I think I didn't explain my feelings well. But, now I understood them finally! So: It was an experiment back then. Now, nine days and a million lines later, it suddenly isn't an experiment anymore? I understand there's a comprehensive test suite (yay!) but still... a million-line diff in nine days still sounds like an experiment to me.
  - wiseowise 6mo ago
    Why are you defending them so much, lol. It's no longer an underdog open source project fighting for survival, it's a freaking Anthropic subsidiary that has been bought for hundreds of millions of dollars.
    - rcxdude 6mo ago
      Generally when people are doing this, it's not out of a desire to defend the party being attacked, but because they value some principle that they think is being violated in the attack. Most often this is just caring about what's actually true.
serial_dev 6mo ago
“Nobody could have seen this coming…”? Well apparently a lot of people did. Maybe Jarred didn’t, maybe you didn’t, but most people correctly predicted what was coming.
- embedding-shape 6mo ago
  See what coming?! I really don't understand what's going on here. Correctly predicted what, that Bun was being rewritten into Rust? I'm not sure anyone doubted that, all the work they did was public??? What on earth is going on here?
  - grayhatter 6mo ago
    > What on earth is going on here? With the nearly complete PR with the port to rust, a number of people predicted that it was going to happen. They were assured it's unlikely to happen and then they were accused of overreacting over effectively nothing. When those same people who were already upset about the rewrite, learned that their predictions the same ones that were rudely dismissed, were in fact, correct, they became upset again; this time about being lied to. Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. Especially given they correctly predicted the future.
    - famouswaffles 6mo ago
      >Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. No it's not. If we were 9 days away from a human written version of this experiment then yeah it would be reasonable to conclude they were lied to, because a human written version would progress so much slower and steadier that it's very unlikely you hadn't made up most of your mind a week before merge time. But it's not human written. It's months, perhaps years of work compressed into a week, where the machine can go from 'nothing is working' to 'everything is working' in a few days. There is nothing reasonable about concluding you must have been lied to when such a delta in such a short time is possible. And if people fail to see that, then perhaps the initial assertions about an emotional meltdown were not so far off after all.
grayhatter 6mo ago
> so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment. It also makes sense to have strong feelings when you're able to pattern match well enough to predict something will happen despite others trying to convince you that your predictions are incorrect. It's not overreacting when correctly predicting the future, just because others couldn't. In the same vein, the idea that "everyone out to get you" is not called paranoia when there are people actually out to get you. That's better called being observant. Some of those who predicted correctly might also have overreacted, but I believe that the majority understood that to be a blanket statement about prediction as a whole vs any specific individual reaction.

tasuki 6mo ago

Maybe the people who "were overreacting" just happened to have more foresight than you and me? Perhaps they saw where this was heading, and that led to their "overreaction"?

embedding-shape 6mo ago
In what way? Foresight about what? It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now.
- rcxdude 6mo ago
  The difference is an assumption of good faith, for the most part, and that is to some extent modulated by how reasonable people believe a large scale LLM and/or rust rewrite is a reasonable idea.
- tasuki 6mo ago
  > It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now. Yes - I think I didn't explain my feelings well. But, now I understood them finally! So: It was an experiment back then. Now, nine days and a million lines later, it suddenly isn't an experiment anymore? I understand there's a comprehensive test suite (yay!) but still... a million-line diff in nine days still sounds like an experiment to me.
- wiseowise 6mo ago
  Why are you defending them so much, lol. It's no longer an underdog open source project fighting for survival, it's a freaking Anthropic subsidiary that has been bought for hundreds of millions of dollars.
  - rcxdude 6mo ago
    Generally when people are doing this, it's not out of a desire to defend the party being attacked, but because they value some principle that they think is being violated in the attack. Most often this is just caring about what's actually true.

serial_dev 6mo ago

“Nobody could have seen this coming…”? Well apparently a lot of people did. Maybe Jarred didn’t, maybe you didn’t, but most people correctly predicted what was coming.

embedding-shape 6mo ago
See what coming?! I really don't understand what's going on here. Correctly predicted what, that Bun was being rewritten into Rust? I'm not sure anyone doubted that, all the work they did was public??? What on earth is going on here?
- grayhatter 6mo ago
  > What on earth is going on here? With the nearly complete PR with the port to rust, a number of people predicted that it was going to happen. They were assured it's unlikely to happen and then they were accused of overreacting over effectively nothing. When those same people who were already upset about the rewrite, learned that their predictions the same ones that were rudely dismissed, were in fact, correct, they became upset again; this time about being lied to. Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. Especially given they correctly predicted the future.
  - famouswaffles 6mo ago
    >Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. No it's not. If we were 9 days away from a human written version of this experiment then yeah it would be reasonable to conclude they were lied to, because a human written version would progress so much slower and steadier that it's very unlikely you hadn't made up most of your mind a week before merge time. But it's not human written. It's months, perhaps years of work compressed into a week, where the machine can go from 'nothing is working' to 'everything is working' in a few days. There is nothing reasonable about concluding you must have been lied to when such a delta in such a short time is possible. And if people fail to see that, then perhaps the initial assertions about an emotional meltdown were not so far off after all.

grayhatter 6mo ago

> so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment. It also makes sense to have strong feelings when you're able to pattern match well enough to predict something will happen despite others trying to convince you that your predictions are incorrect. It's not overreacting when correctly predicting the future, just because others couldn't. In the same vein, the idea that "everyone out to get you" is not called paranoia when there are people actually out to get you. That's better called being observant. Some of those who predicted correctly might also have overreacted, but I believe that the majority understood that to be a blanket statement about prediction as a whole vs any specific individual reaction.