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Fund them to do what exactly? Come up with their own research ideas? You got the pipeline backwards. The government picks the research areas/priorities then al

by elteto 5mo ago

Fund them to do what exactly? Come up with their own research ideas? You got the pipeline backwards. The government picks the research areas/priorities then allocates funding for those, and universities apply and compete to get grants. _Then_, once a grant is given to a school, is funding for labs and graduate students allocated. If the government has no interest in doing research and provides no funding then schools don’t have projects to work on and no money to hire graduate students.

loeg 5mo ago
That is how it usually works, but again, MIT has tens of billions of dollars. They could literally write their own grants.
- snark42 5mo ago
  Much of those billions of dollars are contractually limited in how they can use both the principal and gains so it's really not that simple.
- counters 5mo ago
  A sizable chunk of the endowment likely has legal restrictions that limit how funds can be spent. E.g., they could be earmarked for undergraduate scholarships or a specific lab at a specific department. The endowment isn't a slush fund. It's also worth noting that the structural costs of research are far larger than what any single institution would be able to shoulder. For instance, MIT has extremely limited supercomputing resources under their own maintenance. Researchers would typically use such resources from centralized places funded by the NSF or DOE, where larger pools of money can be assembled. And of course this doesn't even get into the reality that the annual operating costs of somewhere like MIT likely far exceeds the investment returns generated by the endowment. You might as well argue that companies should never take venture capital - e.g. if they can't finance their growth through profits alone then they shouldn't raise any money. The whole point of grants or investment is to subsidize and incentive work which has payoffs on much longer timescales than what market dynamics can sustain alone.
  - loeg 5mo ago
    > A sizable chunk of the endowment likely has legal restrictions that limit how funds can be spent. E.g., they could be earmarked for undergraduate scholarships or a specific lab at a specific department. The endowment isn't a slush fund. Some of it has some restrictions, but money is fungible. I do not believe that MIT is actually limited (in practice) from writing their own grants because of donor restrictions (if they wanted to). > And of course this doesn't even get into the reality that the annual operating costs of somewhere like MIT likely far exceeds the investment returns generated by the endowment. Somehow they spend $1.2B/year on administration, so, yeah. Don't do that. But they easily have enough principal to cover grant funding for the remaining years of this administration. Especially if they can play on their lib donor heart-strings about how mean the current administration is being to them.
    - c7b 5mo ago
      The vast majority of the endowment isn't money (dollars in bank accounts). University endowments work like private equity funds, most of the funds will be invested in assets, most of which hardly liquid enough to reasonably convert them into cash on short notice. They could try to borrow money against the valuations of those assets, but it's not sane to take on debt in order to sustain a level of expenditures that was adjusted to a much higher level of income (true more generally). Especially when the alternative of temporarily scaling back expenses is relatively easy.
      - loeg 5mo ago
        I am very skeptical that endowment funds are as illiquid as you claim. We're talking about amounts less than 10% of the total portfolio size annually.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
    - counters 5mo ago
      > Especially if they can play on their lib donor heart-strings about how mean the current administration is being to them. Yes, like those famous liberals the Koch family who paid for prime real estate across from Stata. It's just not as simple as you lay it out to be. Do you _seriously_ think that if hunkering down and paying out of the endowment to sustain nominal operations for a few short years was a viable strategy that they wouldn't be doing just that?
- fg137 5mo ago
  You have no idea how endowments work.
- esalman 5mo ago
  That would be a conflict of interest.
bongoman42 5mo ago
Government is not great at picking up or creating ideas. Academia has to lead in that and then show government why it would be best for the nation to fund those. The government is good at long term funding for ideas that may not be the best for private sector right away but it should not be creating ideas themselves otherwise you would get things like Lysenkoism.
- kjkjadksj 5mo ago
  Who do you think sits on these grant review boards? It isn’t bureaucrats. These people are scientists in the field too.
  - intended 5mo ago
    That mattered for the America that was, not the America that is.
- elteto 5mo ago
  Allow me to disagree while I look back at the last 80 years of US government-funded research. The government isn’t “picking” the research topics. It’s the scientists in places like the NSF that are. No system is perfect but some system is better than nothing, which is where we are going.

by elteto 5mo ago

loeg 5mo ago

That is how it usually works, but again, MIT has tens of billions of dollars. They could literally write their own grants.

snark42 5mo ago
Much of those billions of dollars are contractually limited in how they can use both the principal and gains so it's really not that simple.
counters 5mo ago
A sizable chunk of the endowment likely has legal restrictions that limit how funds can be spent. E.g., they could be earmarked for undergraduate scholarships or a specific lab at a specific department. The endowment isn't a slush fund. It's also worth noting that the structural costs of research are far larger than what any single institution would be able to shoulder. For instance, MIT has extremely limited supercomputing resources under their own maintenance. Researchers would typically use such resources from centralized places funded by the NSF or DOE, where larger pools of money can be assembled. And of course this doesn't even get into the reality that the annual operating costs of somewhere like MIT likely far exceeds the investment returns generated by the endowment. You might as well argue that companies should never take venture capital - e.g. if they can't finance their growth through profits alone then they shouldn't raise any money. The whole point of grants or investment is to subsidize and incentive work which has payoffs on much longer timescales than what market dynamics can sustain alone.
- loeg 5mo ago
  > A sizable chunk of the endowment likely has legal restrictions that limit how funds can be spent. E.g., they could be earmarked for undergraduate scholarships or a specific lab at a specific department. The endowment isn't a slush fund. Some of it has some restrictions, but money is fungible. I do not believe that MIT is actually limited (in practice) from writing their own grants because of donor restrictions (if they wanted to). > And of course this doesn't even get into the reality that the annual operating costs of somewhere like MIT likely far exceeds the investment returns generated by the endowment. Somehow they spend $1.2B/year on administration, so, yeah. Don't do that. But they easily have enough principal to cover grant funding for the remaining years of this administration. Especially if they can play on their lib donor heart-strings about how mean the current administration is being to them.
  - c7b 5mo ago
    The vast majority of the endowment isn't money (dollars in bank accounts). University endowments work like private equity funds, most of the funds will be invested in assets, most of which hardly liquid enough to reasonably convert them into cash on short notice. They could try to borrow money against the valuations of those assets, but it's not sane to take on debt in order to sustain a level of expenditures that was adjusted to a much higher level of income (true more generally). Especially when the alternative of temporarily scaling back expenses is relatively easy.
    - loeg 5mo ago
      I am very skeptical that endowment funds are as illiquid as you claim. We're talking about amounts less than 10% of the total portfolio size annually.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
  - counters 5mo ago
    > Especially if they can play on their lib donor heart-strings about how mean the current administration is being to them. Yes, like those famous liberals the Koch family who paid for prime real estate across from Stata. It's just not as simple as you lay it out to be. Do you _seriously_ think that if hunkering down and paying out of the endowment to sustain nominal operations for a few short years was a viable strategy that they wouldn't be doing just that?
fg137 5mo ago
You have no idea how endowments work.
esalman 5mo ago
That would be a conflict of interest.

bongoman42 5mo ago

Government is not great at picking up or creating ideas. Academia has to lead in that and then show government why it would be best for the nation to fund those. The government is good at long term funding for ideas that may not be the best for private sector right away but it should not be creating ideas themselves otherwise you would get things like Lysenkoism.

kjkjadksj 5mo ago
Who do you think sits on these grant review boards? It isn’t bureaucrats. These people are scientists in the field too.
- intended 5mo ago
  That mattered for the America that was, not the America that is.
elteto 5mo ago
Allow me to disagree while I look back at the last 80 years of US government-funded research. The government isn’t “picking” the research topics. It’s the scientists in places like the NSF that are. No system is perfect but some system is better than nothing, which is where we are going.