7 ms·

Yes sure it's ok to change your mind. But don't you think the people Jarred accused of "overreacting" in retrospect didn't?

by tasuki 5mo ago

embedding-shape 5mo ago
No, what we knew then is still what was known then. Today is different, and seemingly they've committed to the rewrite, so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment.
- tasuki 5mo ago
  Maybe the people who "were overreacting" just happened to have more foresight than you and me? Perhaps they saw where this was heading, and that led to their "overreaction"?
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    In what way? Foresight about what? It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now.
    - rcxdude 5mo ago
      The difference is an assumption of good faith, for the most part, and that is to some extent modulated by how reasonable people believe a large scale LLM and/or rust rewrite is a reasonable idea.
    - tasuki 5mo ago
      > It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now. Yes - I think I didn't explain my feelings well. But, now I understood them finally! So: It was an experiment back then. Now, nine days and a million lines later, it suddenly isn't an experiment anymore? I understand there's a comprehensive test suite (yay!) but still... a million-line diff in nine days still sounds like an experiment to me.
    - wiseowise 5mo ago
      Why are you defending them so much, lol. It's no longer an underdog open source project fighting for survival, it's a freaking Anthropic subsidiary that has been bought for hundreds of millions of dollars.
      - rcxdude 5mo ago
        Generally when people are doing this, it's not out of a desire to defend the party being attacked, but because they value some principle that they think is being violated in the attack. Most often this is just caring about what's actually true.
- serial_dev 5mo ago
  “Nobody could have seen this coming…”? Well apparently a lot of people did. Maybe Jarred didn’t, maybe you didn’t, but most people correctly predicted what was coming.
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    See what coming?! I really don't understand what's going on here. Correctly predicted what, that Bun was being rewritten into Rust? I'm not sure anyone doubted that, all the work they did was public??? What on earth is going on here?
    - grayhatter 5mo ago
      > What on earth is going on here? With the nearly complete PR with the port to rust, a number of people predicted that it was going to happen. They were assured it's unlikely to happen and then they were accused of overreacting over effectively nothing. When those same people who were already upset about the rewrite, learned that their predictions the same ones that were rudely dismissed, were in fact, correct, they became upset again; this time about being lied to. Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. Especially given they correctly predicted the future.
      - famouswaffles 5mo ago
        >Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. No it's not. If we were 9 days away from a human written version of this experiment then yeah it would be reasonable to conclude they were lied to, because a human written version would progress so much slower and steadier that it's very unlikely you hadn't made up most of your mind a week before merge time. But it's not human written. It's months, perhaps years of work compressed into a week, where the machine can go from 'nothing is working' to 'everything is working' in a few days. There is nothing reasonable about concluding you must have been lied to when such a delta in such a short time is possible. And if people fail to see that, then perhaps the initial assertions about an emotional meltdown were not so far off after all.
- grayhatter 5mo ago
  > so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment. It also makes sense to have strong feelings when you're able to pattern match well enough to predict something will happen despite others trying to convince you that your predictions are incorrect. It's not overreacting when correctly predicting the future, just because others couldn't. In the same vein, the idea that "everyone out to get you" is not called paranoia when there are people actually out to get you. That's better called being observant. Some of those who predicted correctly might also have overreacted, but I believe that the majority understood that to be a blanket statement about prediction as a whole vs any specific individual reaction.
hombre_fatal 5mo ago
The top comment at that link points out how many of the sibling comments are delirious and emotional, kneejerk responding to the news rather than giving any sort of sober analysis. That people were overreacting with emotional meltdowns (common in AI-related threads) is perfectly compatible with the branch making enough progress to get merged.
- BoorishBears 5mo ago
  This seems dishonest. I'm reading through the top comments next to his and don't see that. You can always find delirious and emotional takes, but those didn't dominate the discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017005 > [...] Time will tell how this will turn out. Would be nice if the Bun maintainers could give some clarification about what they’re doing here, and why they’re doing this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017358 Compares this to Go runtime's C to Go migration https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017309 Link to Github diff view https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017505 > I wonder if a successful, albeit slower, approach would be to walk the git commit history in lockstep, applying the behavioral intent behind each commit. If they did this, I would be interested in knowing if they were able to skip certain bug fix commits because the Rust implementation sidestepped the problem.
- wiseowise 5mo ago
  Anyone who disagrees with me is having an emotional meltdown and obviously they're delirious AI-haters.
  - Muromec 5mo ago
    I'm not in a cult, you are in a cult and delusional!
weird-eye-issue 5mo ago
Who cares? Go see a therapist

Yes sure it's ok to change your mind. But don't you think the people Jarred accused of "overreacting" in retrospect didn't?

by tasuki 5mo ago

Yes sure it's ok to change your mind. But don't you think the people Jarred accused of "overreacting" in retrospect didn't?

embedding-shape 5mo ago

No, what we knew then is still what was known then. Today is different, and seemingly they've committed to the rewrite, so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment.

tasuki 5mo ago
Maybe the people who "were overreacting" just happened to have more foresight than you and me? Perhaps they saw where this was heading, and that led to their "overreaction"?
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  In what way? Foresight about what? It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now.
  - rcxdude 5mo ago
    The difference is an assumption of good faith, for the most part, and that is to some extent modulated by how reasonable people believe a large scale LLM and/or rust rewrite is a reasonable idea.
  - tasuki 5mo ago
    > It was an experiment before, regardless of people's reaction at the time doesn't make it less of an experiment back then. I feel like I'm misunderstanding this entire conversation right now. Yes - I think I didn't explain my feelings well. But, now I understood them finally! So: It was an experiment back then. Now, nine days and a million lines later, it suddenly isn't an experiment anymore? I understand there's a comprehensive test suite (yay!) but still... a million-line diff in nine days still sounds like an experiment to me.
  - wiseowise 5mo ago
    Why are you defending them so much, lol. It's no longer an underdog open source project fighting for survival, it's a freaking Anthropic subsidiary that has been bought for hundreds of millions of dollars.
    - rcxdude 5mo ago
      Generally when people are doing this, it's not out of a desire to defend the party being attacked, but because they value some principle that they think is being violated in the attack. Most often this is just caring about what's actually true.
serial_dev 5mo ago
“Nobody could have seen this coming…”? Well apparently a lot of people did. Maybe Jarred didn’t, maybe you didn’t, but most people correctly predicted what was coming.
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  See what coming?! I really don't understand what's going on here. Correctly predicted what, that Bun was being rewritten into Rust? I'm not sure anyone doubted that, all the work they did was public??? What on earth is going on here?
  - grayhatter 5mo ago
    > What on earth is going on here? With the nearly complete PR with the port to rust, a number of people predicted that it was going to happen. They were assured it's unlikely to happen and then they were accused of overreacting over effectively nothing. When those same people who were already upset about the rewrite, learned that their predictions the same ones that were rudely dismissed, were in fact, correct, they became upset again; this time about being lied to. Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. Especially given they correctly predicted the future.
    - famouswaffles 5mo ago
      >Correct or not, it's reasonable to conclude they were lied to. No it's not. If we were 9 days away from a human written version of this experiment then yeah it would be reasonable to conclude they were lied to, because a human written version would progress so much slower and steadier that it's very unlikely you hadn't made up most of your mind a week before merge time. But it's not human written. It's months, perhaps years of work compressed into a week, where the machine can go from 'nothing is working' to 'everything is working' in a few days. There is nothing reasonable about concluding you must have been lied to when such a delta in such a short time is possible. And if people fail to see that, then perhaps the initial assertions about an emotional meltdown were not so far off after all.
grayhatter 5mo ago
> so now it makes sense that people have strong feelings about it, as it's no longer just an experiment. It also makes sense to have strong feelings when you're able to pattern match well enough to predict something will happen despite others trying to convince you that your predictions are incorrect. It's not overreacting when correctly predicting the future, just because others couldn't. In the same vein, the idea that "everyone out to get you" is not called paranoia when there are people actually out to get you. That's better called being observant. Some of those who predicted correctly might also have overreacted, but I believe that the majority understood that to be a blanket statement about prediction as a whole vs any specific individual reaction.

hombre_fatal 5mo ago

The top comment at that link points out how many of the sibling comments are delirious and emotional, kneejerk responding to the news rather than giving any sort of sober analysis. That people were overreacting with emotional meltdowns (common in AI-related threads) is perfectly compatible with the branch making enough progress to get merged.

BoorishBears 5mo ago
This seems dishonest. I'm reading through the top comments next to his and don't see that. You can always find delirious and emotional takes, but those didn't dominate the discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017005 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017005 > [...] Time will tell how this will turn out. Would be nice if the Bun maintainers could give some clarification about what they’re doing here, and why they’re doing this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017358 Compares this to Go runtime's C to Go migration https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017309 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017309 Link to Github diff view https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017505 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48017505 > I wonder if a successful, albeit slower, approach would be to walk the git commit history in lockstep, applying the behavioral intent behind each commit. If they did this, I would be interested in knowing if they were able to skip certain bug fix commits because the Rust implementation sidestepped the problem.
wiseowise 5mo ago
Anyone who disagrees with me is having an emotional meltdown and obviously they're delirious AI-haters.
- Muromec 5mo ago
  I'm not in a cult, you are in a cult and delusional!

weird-eye-issue 5mo ago

Who cares? Go see a therapist