9 ms·

Remove .zig Files from Bun

37 points by quasigloam 5mo ago

ai_slop_hater 5mo ago
It might be the time to flag Bun as AI slop
- steve_adams_86 5mo ago
  Regardless of your optimism about LLMs, it seems crazy to expect an entire runtime to be stable after this kind of refactoring pass. I would be skeptical if humans did it too. Rust isn’t magical; it can still compile with bugs despite what some people claim.
- beanjuiceII 5mo ago
  its always been slop though, even before the AI
Alifatisk 5mo ago
> This PR has been marked as AI slop and the description has been updated to avoid confusion or misleading reviewers
Galanwe 5mo ago
> Security risks: None. This is dead-code removal Thanks Claude! XD
plus 5mo ago
The linked PR has been flagged as AI slop, but there seems to be an equivalent PR that's still open: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30683 https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30683
- cayleyh 5mo ago
  The PR says it was from Jarred, and then he flags his own PR as slop...
Robdel12 5mo ago
My hot take is Anthropic is going to have a really rough year as they’re going to start to feel the weight of all their vibe coding and products. I have a hard time believing they have something figured out that the rest of software engineers don’t. I’ve been using LLMs to help code since before claude code and heavily since. I have a hard enough time managing the “slop” from 4-5 agents. I can’t imagine this is going to go well having this done in like a week. If you think that it will, I implore you to attempt the same in your large existing codebase and report back the mess. Theirs is littered with TODOs like this https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412/changes#diff-6c2b54078ddac708ec4a98e7091ba0f310a390bafeaae1d56eaa0a1ba61f33c5R19 https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412/changes#diff-6c2b5...
- parliament32 5mo ago
  Given how terrible their in-house support bot is, I don't think they've figured out jack shit. If you truly had a half-decent LLM, you'd think the first place you'd put it to demonstrate the capabilities is handling support.
- dormento 5mo ago
  > My hot take is Anthropic is going to have a really rough year as they’re going to start to feel the weight of all their vibe coding and products. sed -e 's/Anthropic/everyone/g' and I agree. "move things and break fast" all around.
- bonesss 5mo ago
  Anecdotally, I am seeing tons of visual bugs in software and apps these days. Issues of rendering, too many menu options, mobile sizes not being accounted for per se, non-functioning buttons, half-load issues, etc. Consumer facing, major platforms, commercial services. I can’t ascribe all of it to LLMs but there’s been an objective change in my impotent cursing from “what is wrong with them” to “did anyone even test this?” over the last six months to a year. If the backends start acting like these frontends we might get to see a bunch of cognitive/technical debt blow up at scale.
  - cayleyh 5mo ago
embedding-shape 5mo ago
Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48132488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48132488 ("Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged" - 170 points - 5 hours ago - 159 comments)
orphea 5mo ago
RIP bun, it was good to know you.
rvz 5mo ago
They are already hiring for (experienced) Rust and C++ developers to clean up the slop that used Claude to create. But then again, this is all marketing content for Anthropic for large scale production-grade rewrites such as this.
amiga386 5mo ago
FOR GREAT JUSTICE TAKE OFF EVERY ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING TAKE OFF EVERY ZIG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg&t=124s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg&t=124s https://archive.org/details/flash_allyourbase https://archive.org/details/flash_allyourbase
j-pb 5mo ago
On one hand I kinda feel validated for having jumped ship on Zig 3+ Years ago[1] and moving everything to Rust[2], with the language simply being too unstable and unsafe in my eyes, despite my love for comptime and people arguing that Bun and Tigerbeetle were proof that it wasn't the languages fault. But I also feel bad for the Zig project to loose one of their flagship projects, because while I find the project ultimately anachronistic, I know what it's like to pour your sweat, heart and soul into something, and having it replaced within a week is a sobering experience even from afar. A couple years ago this would have been unthinkable because of how slow legacy codebases and rewrites are. I wonder if Tigerbeetle will also have problems arguing for their solution now that the other project they can point to for customer assurance is gone. And I wonder if they will follow suit eventually simply due to marketing pressure (after having been bitten by the Zig compiler I was surprised that they were putting their super duper high reliability database on top of it at all, but with another big player using it there was at least some peace of mind for their enterprise customers). 1: https://github.com/triblespace/tribles-zig https://github.com/triblespace/tribles-zig 2: https://github.com/triblespace/triblespace-rs https://github.com/triblespace/triblespace-rs
- dmit 5mo ago
  Tigerbeetle is in the database business. They operate on an entire different level of correctness expectations compared to something like Bun. The correctness guarantees they provide come first and foremost from the design, architecture and rigorous testing, not from the language they use for the implementation. So, hopefully, the tech people involved in choosing a database for their project understand that, and do their own correctness and performance testing before making a decision. As for the business people, the tigerbeetle.com landing page doesn't mention Zig at all, although it probably will come up when they "ask AI" for a comparison. So, yeah, probably some risk. Perhaps the LLM will also point out the Jepsen report on Tigerbeetle to offset it.
  - j-pb 5mo ago
    > not from the language they use for the implementation. Everybody has a plan until their compiler compiles an if-else wrong, and that's the level of instability that Zig had when I left it and Tigerbeetle committed to it. No amount of testing is going to save you from that and it's a completely avoidable unnecessary self-inflicted problem, as a technical person that makes me seriously doubt every other decision you make on top of that. So I feel like they've already been fighting an uphill battle, where they have to proof that they have a stable system, despite an unconventional early stage foundation, and I feel like that it just got even harder.
mohsen1 5mo ago
deleted
- behaviors 5mo ago
  Yeah the next generation is understanding the codebase vs understanding how to prompt the info out of the codebase. I too took on the rust port of a working software, learned some LLM roadbumps, and it looks very much like the future is LLM coded and human "managed"
hiccuphippo 5mo ago
The PR was closed because it did it too soon.
blastonico 5mo ago
Does anybody know what model they are using? Is that Mythos? This is impressive. I honestly don't know what to think about programming careers, need to reflect on my role in this area. The only thing that comes to mind the that quote from Cypher (Matrix): "Buckle your seat belt, Dorothy, because Kansas is going bye-bye."
cayleyh 5mo ago
I missed what the reason given for moving from zig to rust was. Considering 9 days ago it was "This whole thread is an overreaction." Is it really just that Anthropic now owns bun and zig is "anti-LLM" for contributions? Was there more justification given elsewhere?
theturtle 5mo ago
[dead]

37 points by quasigloam 5mo ago

ai_slop_hater 5mo ago

It might be the time to flag Bun as AI slop

steve_adams_86 5mo ago
Regardless of your optimism about LLMs, it seems crazy to expect an entire runtime to be stable after this kind of refactoring pass. I would be skeptical if humans did it too. Rust isn’t magical; it can still compile with bugs despite what some people claim.
beanjuiceII 5mo ago
its always been slop though, even before the AI

Alifatisk 5mo ago

> This PR has been marked as AI slop and the description has been updated to avoid confusion or misleading reviewers

Galanwe 5mo ago

> Security risks: None. This is dead-code removal Thanks Claude! XD

plus 5mo ago

The linked PR has been flagged as AI slop, but there seems to be an equivalent PR that's still open: https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30683 https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30683

cayleyh 5mo ago
The PR says it was from Jarred, and then he flags his own PR as slop...

Robdel12 5mo ago

My hot take is Anthropic is going to have a really rough year as they’re going to start to feel the weight of all their vibe coding and products. I have a hard time believing they have something figured out that the rest of software engineers don’t. I’ve been using LLMs to help code since before claude code and heavily since. I have a hard enough time managing the “slop” from 4-5 agents. I can’t imagine this is going to go well having this done in like a week. If you think that it will, I implore you to attempt the same in your large existing codebase and report back the mess. Theirs is littered with TODOs like this https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412/changes#diff-6c2b54078ddac708ec4a98e7091ba0f310a390bafeaae1d56eaa0a1ba61f33c5R19 https://github.com/oven-sh/bun/pull/30412/changes#diff-6c2b5...

parliament32 5mo ago
Given how terrible their in-house support bot is, I don't think they've figured out jack shit. If you truly had a half-decent LLM, you'd think the first place you'd put it to demonstrate the capabilities is handling support.
dormento 5mo ago
> My hot take is Anthropic is going to have a really rough year as they’re going to start to feel the weight of all their vibe coding and products. sed -e 's/Anthropic/everyone/g' and I agree. "move things and break fast" all around.
bonesss 5mo ago
Anecdotally, I am seeing tons of visual bugs in software and apps these days. Issues of rendering, too many menu options, mobile sizes not being accounted for per se, non-functioning buttons, half-load issues, etc. Consumer facing, major platforms, commercial services. I can’t ascribe all of it to LLMs but there’s been an objective change in my impotent cursing from “what is wrong with them” to “did anyone even test this?” over the last six months to a year. If the backends start acting like these frontends we might get to see a bunch of cognitive/technical debt blow up at scale.
- cayleyh 5mo ago

embedding-shape 5mo ago

Dupe: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48132488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48132488 ("Rewrite Bun in Rust has been merged" - 170 points - 5 hours ago - 159 comments)

orphea 5mo ago

RIP bun, it was good to know you.

rvz 5mo ago

They are already hiring for (experienced) Rust and C++ developers to clean up the slop that used Claude to create. But then again, this is all marketing content for Anthropic for large scale production-grade rewrites such as this.

amiga386 5mo ago

FOR GREAT JUSTICE TAKE OFF EVERY ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG MOVE ZIG YOU KNOW WHAT YOU DOING TAKE OFF EVERY ZIG https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg&t=124s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg&t=124s https://archive.org/details/flash_allyourbase https://archive.org/details/flash_allyourbase

j-pb 5mo ago

On one hand I kinda feel validated for having jumped ship on Zig 3+ Years ago[1] and moving everything to Rust[2], with the language simply being too unstable and unsafe in my eyes, despite my love for comptime and people arguing that Bun and Tigerbeetle were proof that it wasn't the languages fault. But I also feel bad for the Zig project to loose one of their flagship projects, because while I find the project ultimately anachronistic, I know what it's like to pour your sweat, heart and soul into something, and having it replaced within a week is a sobering experience even from afar. A couple years ago this would have been unthinkable because of how slow legacy codebases and rewrites are. I wonder if Tigerbeetle will also have problems arguing for their solution now that the other project they can point to for customer assurance is gone. And I wonder if they will follow suit eventually simply due to marketing pressure (after having been bitten by the Zig compiler I was surprised that they were putting their super duper high reliability database on top of it at all, but with another big player using it there was at least some peace of mind for their enterprise customers). 1: https://github.com/triblespace/tribles-zig https://github.com/triblespace/tribles-zig 2: https://github.com/triblespace/triblespace-rs https://github.com/triblespace/triblespace-rs

dmit 5mo ago
Tigerbeetle is in the database business. They operate on an entire different level of correctness expectations compared to something like Bun. The correctness guarantees they provide come first and foremost from the design, architecture and rigorous testing, not from the language they use for the implementation. So, hopefully, the tech people involved in choosing a database for their project understand that, and do their own correctness and performance testing before making a decision. As for the business people, the tigerbeetle.com landing page doesn't mention Zig at all, although it probably will come up when they "ask AI" for a comparison. So, yeah, probably some risk. Perhaps the LLM will also point out the Jepsen report on Tigerbeetle to offset it.
- j-pb 5mo ago
  > not from the language they use for the implementation. Everybody has a plan until their compiler compiles an if-else wrong, and that's the level of instability that Zig had when I left it and Tigerbeetle committed to it. No amount of testing is going to save you from that and it's a completely avoidable unnecessary self-inflicted problem, as a technical person that makes me seriously doubt every other decision you make on top of that. So I feel like they've already been fighting an uphill battle, where they have to proof that they have a stable system, despite an unconventional early stage foundation, and I feel like that it just got even harder.

mohsen1 5mo ago

deleted

behaviors 5mo ago
Yeah the next generation is understanding the codebase vs understanding how to prompt the info out of the codebase. I too took on the rust port of a working software, learned some LLM roadbumps, and it looks very much like the future is LLM coded and human "managed"

hiccuphippo 5mo ago

The PR was closed because it did it too soon.

blastonico 5mo ago

Does anybody know what model they are using? Is that Mythos? This is impressive. I honestly don't know what to think about programming careers, need to reflect on my role in this area. The only thing that comes to mind the that quote from Cypher (Matrix): "Buckle your seat belt, Dorothy, because Kansas is going bye-bye."

cayleyh 5mo ago

I missed what the reason given for moving from zig to rust was. Considering 9 days ago it was "This whole thread is an overreaction." Is it really just that Anthropic now owns bun and zig is "anti-LLM" for contributions? Was there more justification given elsewhere?

theturtle 5mo ago

[dead]