3 ms·

AIUI, these schools see their mission as training the next generation of leaders and elites. They aim for people with strong abilities, and moral character. A

by lokar 6mo ago

AIUI, these schools see their mission as training the next generation of leaders and elites. They aim for people with strong abilities, and moral character. And, the way you guide youth to act in a certain way is by treating them that way. If you want them to be trustworthy, you trust them. This is not a totally fringe idea.

john_strinlai 6mo ago
>If you want them to be trustworthy, you trust them. sure, but it seems exceptionally silly to continue to blindly trust them when a sizeable portion of them admit to not being trustworthy
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- matthewdgreen 6mo ago
  Most of us have done something stupid once in our lives. That does not mean we do stupid things all the time, nor does it mean that we didn't learn from the experience. The goal of school is to help immature young adults grow into mature ones.
  - john_strinlai 6mo ago
    >The goal of school is to help immature young adults grow into mature ones. agreed! however, having a proctor that stands in the classroom for your exam does not hinder the growth process, in my experience. (i teach, if thats worth anything to my statement)
  - shimman 6mo ago
    Okay and they shouldn't cheat? Why do we always side with the better angels of the elites in America when the elites in America are the literal cause of our misery? If they can't handle having a proctor ensuring they aren't cheating, they're free to go to the local community college.
    - matthewdgreen 6mo ago
      I don't really like to make broad general arguments about "elites". But if we're humoring this argument: I would postulate that the sudden need to police cheating and the more recent bad behavior of our elite adults are probably both symptoms of something deeper. Whatever that is, it should be what makes you angry.
      - shimman 6mo ago
        It's a college made for the elite corporate class of the US and if you spent any time working for the elite corporate class they absolutely hate accountability and wealth redistribution (although they are a big fan of stealing wealth from the workers). I'm angry at the people who control the current incarnation of neoliberalism, the elites, they have led to the complete moral decay of the world. Luckily they fucked up so bad that American imperialism will go back to its rightful place of fucking around in the Americas while murdering civilians for capitalists. Just as the founders intended.
pesus 6mo ago
Seems like it's had the opposite effect.
DANmode 6mo ago
No, they frame their mission that way. Clearly the actions were helpful for maintaining that illusion, while also maintaining the illusion of academic excellence, despite rigorous courses.
nukedindia 6mo ago
[dead]
bix6 6mo ago
The worst people in society right now are immoral elites. Why would any elite be moral when it’s obvious that you get more by being immoral?
Teever 6mo ago
This has to be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read about post secondary education. I'm completely flabbergasted to learn that an Ivy League holds students to a far different and much lower standard than I what I was held to at a regular university in Canada. From now on I don't see how I can't be skeptical of the credentials of someone from Princeton knowing that their exams weren't proctored.
- none2585 6mo ago
  Ivy Leagues have always been about having money not academic rigor.
twobitshifter 6mo ago
You can game theory it out and see that everyone gets to cheat and nobody reports is the best outcome for the group. Defectors must be punished in some way or perhaps the profs are not carrying through with punishments for cheaters.
- batch12 6mo ago
  Is it though if the value of the degree for the overall group is collectively diminished?
permalac 6mo ago
The next generation of leaders know there are no consequences to cheating, that's what I get out of this.
CJefferson 6mo ago
No, they want to train the next generation of leaders and elites, and those elites and leader's parents pay a huge amount of money to get them there. They know not to bite the hand that feeds them.

by lokar 6mo ago

john_strinlai 6mo ago

>If you want them to be trustworthy, you trust them. sure, but it seems exceptionally silly to continue to blindly trust them when a sizeable portion of them admit to not being trustworthy

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
matthewdgreen 6mo ago
Most of us have done something stupid once in our lives. That does not mean we do stupid things all the time, nor does it mean that we didn't learn from the experience. The goal of school is to help immature young adults grow into mature ones.
- john_strinlai 6mo ago
  >The goal of school is to help immature young adults grow into mature ones. agreed! however, having a proctor that stands in the classroom for your exam does not hinder the growth process, in my experience. (i teach, if thats worth anything to my statement)
- shimman 6mo ago
  Okay and they shouldn't cheat? Why do we always side with the better angels of the elites in America when the elites in America are the literal cause of our misery? If they can't handle having a proctor ensuring they aren't cheating, they're free to go to the local community college.
  - matthewdgreen 6mo ago
    I don't really like to make broad general arguments about "elites". But if we're humoring this argument: I would postulate that the sudden need to police cheating and the more recent bad behavior of our elite adults are probably both symptoms of something deeper. Whatever that is, it should be what makes you angry.
    - shimman 6mo ago
      It's a college made for the elite corporate class of the US and if you spent any time working for the elite corporate class they absolutely hate accountability and wealth redistribution (although they are a big fan of stealing wealth from the workers). I'm angry at the people who control the current incarnation of neoliberalism, the elites, they have led to the complete moral decay of the world. Luckily they fucked up so bad that American imperialism will go back to its rightful place of fucking around in the Americas while murdering civilians for capitalists. Just as the founders intended.

pesus 6mo ago

Seems like it's had the opposite effect.

DANmode 6mo ago

No, they frame their mission that way. Clearly the actions were helpful for maintaining that illusion, while also maintaining the illusion of academic excellence, despite rigorous courses.

nukedindia 6mo ago

[dead]

bix6 6mo ago

The worst people in society right now are immoral elites. Why would any elite be moral when it’s obvious that you get more by being immoral?

Teever 6mo ago

This has to be one of the most pretentious things I've ever read about post secondary education. I'm completely flabbergasted to learn that an Ivy League holds students to a far different and much lower standard than I what I was held to at a regular university in Canada. From now on I don't see how I can't be skeptical of the credentials of someone from Princeton knowing that their exams weren't proctored.

none2585 6mo ago
Ivy Leagues have always been about having money not academic rigor.

twobitshifter 6mo ago

You can game theory it out and see that everyone gets to cheat and nobody reports is the best outcome for the group. Defectors must be punished in some way or perhaps the profs are not carrying through with punishments for cheaters.

batch12 6mo ago
Is it though if the value of the degree for the overall group is collectively diminished?

permalac 6mo ago

The next generation of leaders know there are no consequences to cheating, that's what I get out of this.

CJefferson 6mo ago

No, they want to train the next generation of leaders and elites, and those elites and leader's parents pay a huge amount of money to get them there. They know not to bite the hand that feeds them.