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The tools we use are not neutral. A sword can be made to work like an axe, but we use axes for chopping wood because a sword makes a shitty axe. A sword is desi

by xethos 5mo ago

The tools we use are not neutral. A sword can be made to work like an axe, but we use axes for chopping wood because a sword makes a shitty axe. A sword is designed to kill people. The handle, the mass, the weight distribution, and every other aspect I am not qualified to get in to, means swords are designed to kill. They are a tool, and their use is not neutral. This is a clear example, but I don't believe any tools are neutral. Your immediate fallback was to a hammer, not a mouse, with the obvious corrollary being to bludgeon, but the same line applies. Tools are not neutral, and that's why when you looked for something that causes harm, you grabbed something that's objectively been serving a dual-purpose for hundreds of years. Nobody's using a computer mouse to bludgeon someone to death; it makes a shitty bludgeon, and the design of the tool reflects that. That's also why these comparisons always fall back to knives, or hammers, or the AK-47: they are dangerous tools that are designed to make killing easier. Nobody is making these comparisons to more benign tools, like desk lamps, coffee cups, or car stereos, and it's because tools are not neutral, and none of my examples are designed to make direct, bodily harm, easier.

r3trohack3r 5mo ago
Murder by computer keyboard: https://www.deseret.com/1997/7/6/19322063/mother-charged-with-murder-after-son-is-hit-with-keyboard/ https://www.deseret.com/1997/7/6/19322063/mother-charged-wit... Murder by ethernet cable: https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/dead-woman-found-in-park-was-strangled-with-ethernet-cable https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/dead-woman-found-in-pa... Murder by laptop: https://www.riverfronttimes.com/william-lynn-gunter-sentenced-to-30-years-for-murder-of-wife-suzanne/ https://www.riverfronttimes.com/william-lynn-gunter-sentence... Murder by cellphone charger: https://lawandcrime.com/crime/pennsylvania-man-admits-to-strangling-pregnant-girlfriend-with-cellphone-charger-cord-in-fit-of-rage/ https://lawandcrime.com/crime/pennsylvania-man-admits-to-str... Murder by desk lamp: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/2009/01/08/man-beaten-to-death-in-monte-rio-idd-robert-guess-domestic-partner-of-suspect-police-say-lamp-is-murder-weapon/ https://www.pressdemocrat.com/2009/01/08/man-beaten-to-death... Stabbing by coffee mug: https://www.muscalaw.com/blog/north-port-two-women-attack-coffee-mug https://www.muscalaw.com/blog/north-port-two-women-attack-co...
- xethos 5mo ago
  My larger point is that nobody - nobody - defaults to telling us the coffee mug is unregulated, as AI allegedly ought to be. They always compare it to something much more commonly used as a weapon; something that, when asked to name a household object likely to be used as a weapon, the average person would guess.
  - dullcrisp 5mo ago
    Your point is that people make a stronger argument even when a weaker one would be sufficient?
    - xethos 5mo ago
      Instead of comparing AI to any other tool, especially one closer to "useful with a computer", the common comparison is always a weapon of some kind. If the design of tools are neutral, one tool should do as well as another in this common comparison. But the useful application of tools is inherent in their design. If tools were neutral, as so many on this site claim, why is AI only ever compared to knives and hammers? Parent has lots of links to other common objects causing harm, why are they never used as the example when tools are allegedly neutral? That would be a stronger argument opposing AI regulation - ethernet has less regulations that knives, but can still be used as a murder weapon
      - Ukv 5mo ago
        Hammers are kind of just the prototypical tool, but I've definitely also seen comparisons to keyboards, paintbrushes, and traditional digital tools. > why are they never used as the example when tools are allegedly neutral? That would be a stronger argument opposing AI regulation The argument is strongest if pointing to tools that have larger potential impact yet are still widely considered neutral and not/loosely regulated. "We should consider AI a neutral tool and not heavily regulate it because we do the same for drink coasters" is not convincing, because there's not all that much you can do with a coaster.

by xethos 5mo ago

r3trohack3r 5mo ago

Murder by computer keyboard: https://www.deseret.com/1997/7/6/19322063/mother-charged-with-murder-after-son-is-hit-with-keyboard/ https://www.deseret.com/1997/7/6/19322063/mother-charged-wit... Murder by ethernet cable: https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/dead-woman-found-in-park-was-strangled-with-ethernet-cable https://www.gainesvilletimes.com/news/dead-woman-found-in-pa... Murder by laptop: https://www.riverfronttimes.com/william-lynn-gunter-sentenced-to-30-years-for-murder-of-wife-suzanne/ https://www.riverfronttimes.com/william-lynn-gunter-sentence... Murder by cellphone charger: https://lawandcrime.com/crime/pennsylvania-man-admits-to-strangling-pregnant-girlfriend-with-cellphone-charger-cord-in-fit-of-rage/ https://lawandcrime.com/crime/pennsylvania-man-admits-to-str... Murder by desk lamp: https://www.pressdemocrat.com/2009/01/08/man-beaten-to-death-in-monte-rio-idd-robert-guess-domestic-partner-of-suspect-police-say-lamp-is-murder-weapon/ https://www.pressdemocrat.com/2009/01/08/man-beaten-to-death... Stabbing by coffee mug: https://www.muscalaw.com/blog/north-port-two-women-attack-coffee-mug https://www.muscalaw.com/blog/north-port-two-women-attack-co...

xethos 5mo ago
My larger point is that nobody - nobody - defaults to telling us the coffee mug is unregulated, as AI allegedly ought to be. They always compare it to something much more commonly used as a weapon; something that, when asked to name a household object likely to be used as a weapon, the average person would guess.
- dullcrisp 5mo ago
  Your point is that people make a stronger argument even when a weaker one would be sufficient?
  - xethos 5mo ago
    Instead of comparing AI to any other tool, especially one closer to "useful with a computer", the common comparison is always a weapon of some kind. If the design of tools are neutral, one tool should do as well as another in this common comparison. But the useful application of tools is inherent in their design. If tools were neutral, as so many on this site claim, why is AI only ever compared to knives and hammers? Parent has lots of links to other common objects causing harm, why are they never used as the example when tools are allegedly neutral? That would be a stronger argument opposing AI regulation - ethernet has less regulations that knives, but can still be used as a murder weapon
    - Ukv 5mo ago
      Hammers are kind of just the prototypical tool, but I've definitely also seen comparisons to keyboards, paintbrushes, and traditional digital tools. > why are they never used as the example when tools are allegedly neutral? That would be a stronger argument opposing AI regulation The argument is strongest if pointing to tools that have larger potential impact yet are still widely considered neutral and not/loosely regulated. "We should consider AI a neutral tool and not heavily regulate it because we do the same for drink coasters" is not convincing, because there's not all that much you can do with a coaster.