4 ms·

BeOS was my dream from childhood. Haiku is amazing, especially because the original BeOS only existed for five years, while Haiku has been going for 24 already.

BeOS was my dream from childhood. Haiku is amazing, especially because the original BeOS only existed for five years, while Haiku has been going for 24 already. What stamina!

alterom 5mo ago
Same here
bananaflag 5mo ago
Sorry for being negative here: What is the motivation for recreating Be? What would you hope to obtain that you cannot just by using, say, a customized Linux Mint? If it's just historical/nostalgia/challenge, I get it. But people seem to believe there is something else too, and I'd like to know what that is.
- shevy-java 5mo ago
  It kind of looks nice visually. Other than that I do agree with you. I got tired of waiting. Linux spoiled me. I need things to work these days. Linux works.
- dleslie 5mo ago
  It's one of the last single-user focused operating systems. Its design from kernel to UI is intended to make the system accessible to the user sitting at the desk. It was _extraordinarily_ fast and stable on even modest hardware of the era, and its software toolkit was a delight to use. Even now, using it feels like the system is bereft of bloat and cruft. It's a system _for the user_ that doesn't assume that the user is technically incapable.
  - arboles 5mo ago
    > Its design from kernel to UI is intended to make the system accessible to the user sitting at the desk. What does this translate to, in some amount of technical detail?
    - dleslie 5mo ago
      Minimalist and consistent UX, incredibly responsive applications, simple and logical organizational structure, with _excellent_ documentation and developer tools for the era. You boot straight to a desktop, and there's no ads, alerts, pop-ups, pop-unders, noisy task apps, sidebars, widgets, and other engagement seeking focus destroyers. Every app has a reasonably consistent UX and presents as much necessary and relevant information as it can, without tedious wizards or aggressively hiding information behind folds or submenus.
      - arboles 5mo ago
        I was asking what they did differently in the programming.
      - arboles 5mo ago
        I mean, barely anything you mentioned in this reply to do with the kernel.
- funimpoded 5mo ago
  BeOS was way, way snappier to use on the same hardware than Linux (or Windows) no matter how much you trimmed down your (GUI) Linux. IDK what scheduler voodoo they were doing, but it was awesome. Only things I've seen that achieved something similar were QNX/Photon, and (though with the benefit of way stronger hardware and a ton of "cheating" by suspending applications) some (mostly early) versions of iOS. I'm not sure I have any use for Haiku today, but I definitely wish for a world in which computer GUIs didn't feel so damn slow and janky and pre-occupied with whatever it's got going on internally rather than what I need it to be doing right now. Also, I wish some kind of tagging system for filesystems had taken off well enough that I could rely on it, even cross-platform and when copying files between filesystems. Entire programs could just be file tags. Other programs could just be a thin GUI over tagged files. It sucks that didn't end up becoming a standard and reasonably cross-platform-compatible thing.
  - fragmede 5mo ago
    Where FUSE is "supported" cross platform, maybe you could store the tags in an SQLite database that gets dragged along for the ride whenever a file gets copied from FUSE to FUSE. Ie, usbdrive to local fuse mouht shadow copies the SQLite db as an extended attribute sort of thing. Hmm.
  - em-bee 5mo ago
    fully agree, that would be awesome. linux does at least have extended filesystem attributes. the dolphin filemanager from KDE makes use of them to support tags and comments. it's not ideal (tags are a comma separated string) but it is usable. adding tags is a bit painful though. i resorted to add and them through the commandline.
  - cosmic_cheese 5mo ago
    More generally, I think there’s a good deal of ways of improving user experience with a single purpose dedicated desktop OS like BeOS that is out of reach on general purpose OSes like Linux. Actually, I think with Linux there may be a bit of a double penalty on desktop use with how much more attention the server use case gets compared to everything else.
- SyneRyder 5mo ago
  > What would you hope to obtain that you cannot just by using, say, a customized Linux Mint? When things are coded right, Haiku / BeOS is blazing fast (every single thing runs in a separate thread), and resource usage is tiny. I think the OS only uses about half a gig of RAM? When the apps are coded right, there's a feeling that this is how our modern computers could have been, free from bloated software and using the full speed of the machine. And when shutdown only takes a couple of seconds, it makes you wonder what the other OS's are doing. Of course the reality is not that. Display drivers & video codecs on Haiku often don't have the right hardware acceleration, most of the software you need is now Linux ports rather than BeOS native. But Haiku sometimes feels like a calming OS. Because it's so small and quite modular, it feels like an OS you can still potentially get your head around.
  - tombert 5mo ago
    I like how Action Retro has pointed out that installing a fresh Haiku system is often faster than booting a Windows or macOS system. As I said in another comment, I've only played with Haiku in a VM for not very much time, but I am a huge supporter of operating systems that are willing to break out of the codified mediocrity we've labeled "POSIX"; I suspect that we might be leaving a lot of performance on the table by constantly trying to POSIX compliant all the time.
    - nubinetwork 5mo ago
      > a fresh Haiku system is often faster than booting a Windows or macOS system. Faster than booting w2k in a vm, on a modern cpu, at least in my tests.
  - HerbManic 5mo ago
    I have said that Haiku feels like it is simultaneously in the year 2040 and 2000. I glimpse from the past of a future we didn't get.
    - bananaflag 5mo ago
      Like Foundation is in 50000 and 1942.
- timw4mail 5mo ago
  Resource efficiency is a huge one. If you are familiar with the Via Nano: it's a SLOW x86_64 chip (sometimes used in thin clients) that feels about half as fast as older AMD 64 cpu. Haiku feels great on a Via Nano, and it's really storage-space-efficient. Linux distros are slower, and use more storage space (especially important for using an OS on a thin client PC).
- smallstepforman 5mo ago
  Linux is just the kernel, the ecosystem is make up of half a dozen desktop managers, windowing systems, API toolkits, sound servers, file systems, package hits etc. There is an abstraction layer between all these systems. Multiuser, whether you need it or not. Haiku is a unified system, so native apps have one windowing system, one desktop environment, one API, one media kit, one file system etc. There are less layers for data to travel, hence it will always be faster. Also Haiku targets desktop users (single user system, for better or worse), while Linux in all honesty targets servers and embedded with desktop a distant 3rd use case. Haiku package management is a generation ahead of Linux. Finally, BeOS/Haiku core architecture is built from modern 90's designs, while Linux started as a clone of Unix (deep in the bowels of Linux there is a TTY terminal block device). Finally, BeOS had a cool factor (and their fanboys) that Linux never had. Dual CPU from day #1. Blinkenlights. Geek port. Playing videos on a face of a cube. is_computer_on(). Linux is sooo boring in comparison.

BeOS was my dream from childhood. Haiku is amazing, especially because the original BeOS only existed for five years, while Haiku has been going for 24 already. What stamina!

alterom 5mo ago

Same here

bananaflag 5mo ago

Sorry for being negative here: What is the motivation for recreating Be? What would you hope to obtain that you cannot just by using, say, a customized Linux Mint? If it's just historical/nostalgia/challenge, I get it. But people seem to believe there is something else too, and I'd like to know what that is.

shevy-java 5mo ago
It kind of looks nice visually. Other than that I do agree with you. I got tired of waiting. Linux spoiled me. I need things to work these days. Linux works.
dleslie 5mo ago
It's one of the last single-user focused operating systems. Its design from kernel to UI is intended to make the system accessible to the user sitting at the desk. It was _extraordinarily_ fast and stable on even modest hardware of the era, and its software toolkit was a delight to use. Even now, using it feels like the system is bereft of bloat and cruft. It's a system _for the user_ that doesn't assume that the user is technically incapable.
- arboles 5mo ago
  > Its design from kernel to UI is intended to make the system accessible to the user sitting at the desk. What does this translate to, in some amount of technical detail?
  - dleslie 5mo ago
    Minimalist and consistent UX, incredibly responsive applications, simple and logical organizational structure, with _excellent_ documentation and developer tools for the era. You boot straight to a desktop, and there's no ads, alerts, pop-ups, pop-unders, noisy task apps, sidebars, widgets, and other engagement seeking focus destroyers. Every app has a reasonably consistent UX and presents as much necessary and relevant information as it can, without tedious wizards or aggressively hiding information behind folds or submenus.
    - arboles 5mo ago
      I was asking what they did differently in the programming.
    - arboles 5mo ago
      I mean, barely anything you mentioned in this reply to do with the kernel.
funimpoded 5mo ago
BeOS was way, way snappier to use on the same hardware than Linux (or Windows) no matter how much you trimmed down your (GUI) Linux. IDK what scheduler voodoo they were doing, but it was awesome. Only things I've seen that achieved something similar were QNX/Photon, and (though with the benefit of way stronger hardware and a ton of "cheating" by suspending applications) some (mostly early) versions of iOS. I'm not sure I have any use for Haiku today, but I definitely wish for a world in which computer GUIs didn't feel so damn slow and janky and pre-occupied with whatever it's got going on internally rather than what I need it to be doing right now. Also, I wish some kind of tagging system for filesystems had taken off well enough that I could rely on it, even cross-platform and when copying files between filesystems. Entire programs could just be file tags. Other programs could just be a thin GUI over tagged files. It sucks that didn't end up becoming a standard and reasonably cross-platform-compatible thing.
- fragmede 5mo ago
  Where FUSE is "supported" cross platform, maybe you could store the tags in an SQLite database that gets dragged along for the ride whenever a file gets copied from FUSE to FUSE. Ie, usbdrive to local fuse mouht shadow copies the SQLite db as an extended attribute sort of thing. Hmm.
- em-bee 5mo ago
  fully agree, that would be awesome. linux does at least have extended filesystem attributes. the dolphin filemanager from KDE makes use of them to support tags and comments. it's not ideal (tags are a comma separated string) but it is usable. adding tags is a bit painful though. i resorted to add and them through the commandline.
- cosmic_cheese 5mo ago
  More generally, I think there’s a good deal of ways of improving user experience with a single purpose dedicated desktop OS like BeOS that is out of reach on general purpose OSes like Linux. Actually, I think with Linux there may be a bit of a double penalty on desktop use with how much more attention the server use case gets compared to everything else.
SyneRyder 5mo ago
> What would you hope to obtain that you cannot just by using, say, a customized Linux Mint? When things are coded right, Haiku / BeOS is blazing fast (every single thing runs in a separate thread), and resource usage is tiny. I think the OS only uses about half a gig of RAM? When the apps are coded right, there's a feeling that this is how our modern computers could have been, free from bloated software and using the full speed of the machine. And when shutdown only takes a couple of seconds, it makes you wonder what the other OS's are doing. Of course the reality is not that. Display drivers & video codecs on Haiku often don't have the right hardware acceleration, most of the software you need is now Linux ports rather than BeOS native. But Haiku sometimes feels like a calming OS. Because it's so small and quite modular, it feels like an OS you can still potentially get your head around.
- tombert 5mo ago
  I like how Action Retro has pointed out that installing a fresh Haiku system is often faster than booting a Windows or macOS system. As I said in another comment, I've only played with Haiku in a VM for not very much time, but I am a huge supporter of operating systems that are willing to break out of the codified mediocrity we've labeled "POSIX"; I suspect that we might be leaving a lot of performance on the table by constantly trying to POSIX compliant all the time.
  - nubinetwork 5mo ago
    > a fresh Haiku system is often faster than booting a Windows or macOS system. Faster than booting w2k in a vm, on a modern cpu, at least in my tests.
- HerbManic 5mo ago
  I have said that Haiku feels like it is simultaneously in the year 2040 and 2000. I glimpse from the past of a future we didn't get.
  - bananaflag 5mo ago
    Like Foundation is in 50000 and 1942.
timw4mail 5mo ago
Resource efficiency is a huge one. If you are familiar with the Via Nano: it's a SLOW x86_64 chip (sometimes used in thin clients) that feels about half as fast as older AMD 64 cpu. Haiku feels great on a Via Nano, and it's really storage-space-efficient. Linux distros are slower, and use more storage space (especially important for using an OS on a thin client PC).
smallstepforman 5mo ago
Linux is just the kernel, the ecosystem is make up of half a dozen desktop managers, windowing systems, API toolkits, sound servers, file systems, package hits etc. There is an abstraction layer between all these systems. Multiuser, whether you need it or not. Haiku is a unified system, so native apps have one windowing system, one desktop environment, one API, one media kit, one file system etc. There are less layers for data to travel, hence it will always be faster. Also Haiku targets desktop users (single user system, for better or worse), while Linux in all honesty targets servers and embedded with desktop a distant 3rd use case. Haiku package management is a generation ahead of Linux. Finally, BeOS/Haiku core architecture is built from modern 90's designs, while Linux started as a clone of Unix (deep in the bowels of Linux there is a TTY terminal block device). Finally, BeOS had a cool factor (and their fanboys) that Linux never had. Dual CPU from day #1. Blinkenlights. Geek port. Playing videos on a face of a cube. is_computer_on(). Linux is sooo boring in comparison.