4 ms·

It is very much adversarial, and to view it anything but adversarial is to not see the geopolitical reality and the potential national security implications of

It is very much adversarial, and to view it anything but adversarial is to not see the geopolitical reality and the potential national security implications of AI for what they actually are. Moreover, to claim that China is in the lead with local models presupposes that openai and anthropic could not release local models that are better, which is a big assumption. They do not release such models because they have frontier-grade propietary models that have high value.

lorecore 5mo ago
As someone who happens to have been born in the US and currently lives here, I welcome China winning. I trust them infinitely more than I trust my own government and industry. OpenAI and Anthropic are beholden to the capitalist system they exist under and hence cannot compete on local models. Like you say, they must try to maximize shareholder value. China is unencumbered by that constraint.
- 46493168 5mo ago
  What is it about China that makes you trust them more?
  - mghackerlady 5mo ago
    not living there, for one. I don't care if they know where I live since realistically they can't do much of anything to me. If I were in china, I probably wouldn't trust them as much as I trust the US. If I were in Switzerland, I wouldn't trust the swiss government and might get my services from america or china.
  - lorecore 5mo ago
    They're far less imperialistic and I view them as better global citizens than the US. I think they've cultivated a much richer culture than the US as well.
    - 127 5mo ago
      You should read about the difference between a land empire and a sea empire.
      - lorecore 5mo ago
        Happy to if you have any pointers. My original point is that the US kills millions of people outside of its borders, something China most definitely does not. The number is over 12 million post-WWII: https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder.html https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder...
        127 5mo ago
        Well if you discount the people China has killed and is killing within its borders, the number is definitely smaller. As well as another land empire called Russia.
        SubiculumCode 5mo ago
        Replace the U.S. with another world power. Would it be better or worse? Its always easy to criticize the power that is in place and treat them as if they are to blame for all the ills of the world. It is easy to criticize when you are the nation that is asked to help provide international security for commerce on the high seas. But exchange another nation in the U.S.'s place, and I guarantee you most would make similar decisions, and many (e.g. Soviet Union) would be, hands down, worse and more brutal.
        lorecore 5mo ago
        No one asked the US to kill millions of Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghans… well maybe Israel for those last two, but they’re a terrorist entity.
      - poncho_romero 5mo ago
        Any books or articles you recommend?
- SubiculumCode 5mo ago
  You are free to hate capitalism (even if you benefit from it enormously). You are free to say that you hate capitalism and the U.S. as openly and as often as you like, without facing imprisonment or worse. But if you were in China, could you say you hate the Chinese Communist Party and China openly and as often as you like without imprisonment or worse? We know the answer to that. So go ahead and trust China more than the U.S., but I think that is pure foolishness.
  - mghackerlady 5mo ago
    Actually, Chinas free speech, while abysmal, is better than you're making it out to be. They only really care if they see you as a threat, which realistically isn't too far off from the US both currently and historically
    - SubiculumCode 5mo ago
      I understand that there is some freedom of speech in China, but I don't think the implication is that US and China are functionally equivalent. In the U.S. you can criticize the president all day every day and have millions of followers. Could you do that in China? The more people listen to you, the more dissident opinions become a threat.
      - mghackerlady 5mo ago
        I'm not suggesting they are the same, rather, that if the US saw you as a real threat you'd be shut up pretty quickly. The threshold for what is considered a big enough threat is different, but they both have the ability to shut you up and have in the past. Any government would act the same, at least a competent one. The governments 0th priority is ensuring its continued existence, since all of the other functions rely on its existence
      - kennyloginz 5mo ago
        Can Comey?
  - lorecore 5mo ago

lorecore 5mo ago

As someone who happens to have been born in the US and currently lives here, I welcome China winning. I trust them infinitely more than I trust my own government and industry. OpenAI and Anthropic are beholden to the capitalist system they exist under and hence cannot compete on local models. Like you say, they must try to maximize shareholder value. China is unencumbered by that constraint.

46493168 5mo ago
What is it about China that makes you trust them more?
- mghackerlady 5mo ago
  not living there, for one. I don't care if they know where I live since realistically they can't do much of anything to me. If I were in china, I probably wouldn't trust them as much as I trust the US. If I were in Switzerland, I wouldn't trust the swiss government and might get my services from america or china.
- lorecore 5mo ago
  They're far less imperialistic and I view them as better global citizens than the US. I think they've cultivated a much richer culture than the US as well.
  - 127 5mo ago
    You should read about the difference between a land empire and a sea empire.
    - lorecore 5mo ago
      Happy to if you have any pointers. My original point is that the US kills millions of people outside of its borders, something China most definitely does not. The number is over 12 million post-WWII: https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder.html https://www.worldfuturefund.org/Reports/Imperialism/usmurder...
      - 127 5mo ago
        Well if you discount the people China has killed and is killing within its borders, the number is definitely smaller. As well as another land empire called Russia.
      - SubiculumCode 5mo ago
        Replace the U.S. with another world power. Would it be better or worse? Its always easy to criticize the power that is in place and treat them as if they are to blame for all the ills of the world. It is easy to criticize when you are the nation that is asked to help provide international security for commerce on the high seas. But exchange another nation in the U.S.'s place, and I guarantee you most would make similar decisions, and many (e.g. Soviet Union) would be, hands down, worse and more brutal.
        lorecore 5mo ago
        No one asked the US to kill millions of Koreans, Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghans… well maybe Israel for those last two, but they’re a terrorist entity.
    - poncho_romero 5mo ago
      Any books or articles you recommend?
SubiculumCode 5mo ago
You are free to hate capitalism (even if you benefit from it enormously). You are free to say that you hate capitalism and the U.S. as openly and as often as you like, without facing imprisonment or worse. But if you were in China, could you say you hate the Chinese Communist Party and China openly and as often as you like without imprisonment or worse? We know the answer to that. So go ahead and trust China more than the U.S., but I think that is pure foolishness.
- mghackerlady 5mo ago
  Actually, Chinas free speech, while abysmal, is better than you're making it out to be. They only really care if they see you as a threat, which realistically isn't too far off from the US both currently and historically
  - SubiculumCode 5mo ago
    I understand that there is some freedom of speech in China, but I don't think the implication is that US and China are functionally equivalent. In the U.S. you can criticize the president all day every day and have millions of followers. Could you do that in China? The more people listen to you, the more dissident opinions become a threat.
    - mghackerlady 5mo ago
      I'm not suggesting they are the same, rather, that if the US saw you as a real threat you'd be shut up pretty quickly. The threshold for what is considered a big enough threat is different, but they both have the ability to shut you up and have in the past. Any government would act the same, at least a competent one. The governments 0th priority is ensuring its continued existence, since all of the other functions rely on its existence
    - kennyloginz 5mo ago
      Can Comey?
- lorecore 5mo ago