4 ms·

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't

by timcobb 5mo ago

It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call. It's like some joke from gonzo journalism come to fruition. I don't know what the answer is, but as a person who's been suicidal, for me it wasn't a hotline. It's even more fitting, if not kind of perfect, that said hotlines farm your data and sell it. :chef's kiss: what else is there to say. Like just about everything else, callous people make money while vulnerable, sensitive people pay up. Beautiful world we live in ;). Please drink responsibly!

baigy 5mo ago
Learnt a new word today: suicidality. Sounds like physicality, but with deadly consequences.
mothballed 5mo ago
I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!
- ceejayoz 5mo ago
  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-suggests-rarely/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-s... > Many people in mental health crisis fear that if they dial 988, law enforcement might show up or they might be forced to go to the hospital. > But getting sent that kind of "involuntary emergency rescue" happens to around 1% of callers, suggests new data from Vibrant Emotional Health, the administrator of the 988 Lifeline for suicide and mental health crises.
  - hilariously 5mo ago
    If anything I did had a 1% chance of involuntary committal I would stop doing that thing immediately.
    - ceejayoz 5mo ago
      Does that include “untreated suicidal ideation”?
      - hilariously 5mo ago
        Yep, as someone who suffers from depression and suicidal ideation regularly its been made very clear to me on multiple occasions that I would rather be in this state than interface with involuntary committal. I don't know what points you are looking to score here.
        ceejayoz 5mo ago
        I have several loved ones in the same situation, including two who've wound up in hospital in this way. I'm glad they did. Fun? No. But better than dying.
        hilariously 5mo ago
        I get it, I am not advocating to live unmedicated or anything, but pretty much every emergency medical experience I have had any contact with in the USA has been so universally painful and dehumanizing that it gives me extreme pause, I would not willingly engage with it.
        ceejayoz 5mo ago
        I'm fine with someone making that call for themselves with personal experience, although doing it in a sound state of mind can be challenging in crisis. I'd just caution you that it's not a universal experience. As with, say, COVID masking, some people found it abhorrent, and others still voluntarily mask today; some found lockdowns almost fun, others despised even the thought of staying home for a few days. Statistically, police/committment intervention from calling the hotline is rare, and another commenter linked evidence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48122550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48122550) of significant benefits to balance it.
- gowld 5mo ago
  You really think that legal prohibition on gun ownership is more a difference in life-and-death due to murder risk than suicide risk?
- wholinator2 5mo ago
  So from what i understand the only way your gun rights are "gone forever" is if a court ordered you to go to a mental hospital. If it's just a 911 call and a ride to the hospital (every trip to the "grippy sock hotel" I've ever seen), that does not apply and your gun rights are not removed federally. Some states have "red flag" laws but to my understanding those are temporary and end either after a time period or a court petition. I'm curious what laws you're talking about in the US that would take your gun rights for a suicide call.
  - mothballed 5mo ago
    Involuntary commitment. Happened to a good friend of mine during a nasty divorce, the husband made up a suicidal story and my friend was committed without the court appointing her a lawyer to defend herself. She's struggling to get her rights back, it is apparently possible, but they're gone forever until you spend a lot of money on lawyers so it's true it's not strictly the case you can't get them back but they default to staying gone forever.
    - mx7zysuj4xew 5mo ago
      Just curious, but did this person have a history of emotional lability plus previous (voluntary) outpatient treatment?
      - aftbit 5mo ago
        This is just another form of stigma. Better to go without getting treated for mental health issues, or that very responsible decision to seek treatment will be used against you later. See also the jump seat pilot who tried to pull the fire handles on a commercial flight.
  - cj 5mo ago
    This heavily depends on the state. E.g. NY is not friendly in this scenario depending on the type of permit and the type of hold. An involuntary hold will impact your right to have a gun.
- llm_nerd 5mo ago
  Seems like one of those situations where damned if they do, damned if they don't, isn't it? Like if someone is in immediate crisis what do you expect them to do? I feel like if someone is calling a line, they are looking for intervention. If someone cries for help and the response is ensuring that someone doesn't fearmonger on Hacker News, I feel like that would be a problem. "And then yay, your gun rights gone forever" Gun owners are much more likely to kill themself with said gun than to ever defend themselves in any way, and anyone who has ideations should be the last person to want a gun. And suicide mostly afflicts white middle-aged males, most of whom don't live in "dangerous impoverished shitholes". I doubt the correlation is more than random.
  - cindyllm 5mo ago
    [dead]
- iepathos 5mo ago
  Gun rights are generally not gone forever. Federal law bars people adjudicated mentally defective or formally committed to a mental institution, neither of which include a temporary mental hold for suicide watch. State laws vary, but none of them have a law where a single temporary hold means "gun rights gone forever." Some states let people go buy a gun the day they are released from suicide watch, despite how irresponsible that sounds.
  - mothballed 5mo ago
    The temporary can easily turn into an adjudicated one. Happened to one of my friends during a nasty divorce, the high-IQ husband knew all the buttons to press to the state and kept fabricating to the state that the suicidal ideation was ongoing (it never existed in the first place) and then they committed my friend based on that. He was then successful in getting my friend's ability to defend herself removed so that she would be defenseless.
- the_af 5mo ago
  > if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards! Is realistically "gun ownership" a plus in this scenario?
- retired 5mo ago
  In The Netherlands you can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital due to risk of suicide, still get a weapons license, buy half a dozen guns and then go on a shooting rampage killing 7 and wounding 17 (Alphen a/d Rijn shooting, 2011).
- tosti 5mo ago
  They follow a flowchart. Most of it involves trying to figure out if you know any friends or family nearby. I guess finding someone for comfort might make sense, but the flowchart is too obvious and makes it sound like another typical marketing callcenter.
- sailfast 5mo ago
  This is not a comment on gun rights, but, IF you are having issues with suicide and depression I would absolutely remove those weapons from your house and access. Talk to a friend you trust. Have them stored. Something. Having them nearby is only going to increase the odds you end up dead.
Madmallard 5mo ago
when society gets too big, sociopathy and opportunism win out
dylan604 5mo ago
The NYT released an article[0], sorry paywalled, that discusses the effectiveness of the 988 hotline in lowering the number of suicides where it is available. Sadly, because of the joke that is mental health coverage in the US, that's as good of news as I've got for you. Mental health coverage isn't even available on the open market AMA (Obama Care), so 988 is the best we can offer. [0]https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicides-decline.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicide...
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
gowld 5mo ago
The hotline is isn't "selling" the data. The hotline installed analytics software to help them do their job. Do "non-Western culture have a better solution to suicidality?
- mothballed 5mo ago
  A quick sweep of the lowest 20 countries in suicide and the most obvious thing that can be teased out is they're by vast majority extremely conservative societies where family and religion (mostly Islam) would likely dominate the goals of any person living there (with a couple exceptions). Only about half of the lowest 10 have any sort of functional welfare or state support programs. I wonder if having a pretty rigid, straightforward, and achievable set of life goals lowers suicide. This isn't to say that's the best way to live, but I could understand how it may make people more satisfied with their life.
  - keybored 5mo ago
    To guess that people in countries with lower suicide are more satisfied is one possibility.
    - mothballed 5mo ago
      Satisfaction isn't even conditional on most of the rest of what I said, so even if the guess is wrong it doesn't change my statement much.
  - vanviegen 5mo ago
    Suicide is not an attractive option if you believe that you'll be eternally punished for it in the after life.
  - graemep 5mo ago
    I think its very hard to draw conclusions. The country with the lowest rate is majority Christian and AFAIK is not extremely conservative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... A second list on that page gives different numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#List_by_other_sources_and_years_(1985%E2%80%932023) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... In between is a table that shows the suicide rate is much lower in "upper middle income" countries than in either poorer or richer countries. I suspect that is a pointer. Affluent enough not to be constantly struggling, but different in some ways (urbanisation? materialism? isolation?) from the rich countries. You also need to look at other factors. Conservative countries have younger populations, so you need to correct for that. Not all countries have equally accurate statistics. I think conservative countries may have an advantage because of larger families, extended families, fewer people being single (and less isolated if they are) etc. but it needs more data. There are some pretty conservative countries with high rates.
miltonlost 5mo ago
What do you advocate for to help people contemplating suicide? WHat do non-Western culture do to "deal with suicidality"? The issue is when the hotline is selling the data and not that the hotline itself exists.
throw0101c 5mo ago
"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotline-linked-to-drop-in-young-adult-suicide-rates/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-percent-drop-youth-suicide-jama-study/ https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...
- timcobb 5mo ago
  Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide diversity of people out there, so the fact that some find this appealing is not interesting or surprising. So, the question, in my mind, is less that something works for somebody, and more about the broader meaning of this civilizational function. [0] https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006)
  - mden 5mo ago
    Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing. It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.
    - timcobb 5mo ago
      Sure, concretely, my point was that hotlines are a very capitalist feeling thing for me. Probably because of trying to deal with corporiations, from monopolies/utilities to things like airlines. My experience in this realm has been one of alienation. So, taking the hotline and applying it to people in suicidal crisis is like peak alienation in my mind. Personally, I'm not anti-capitalist, but capitalism to me is tied up conceptually with money and expedience. Feelings, in my opinion, are sort of in a different human realm. But yes, for sure, that alienation as I allege it, is probably good for many people in crisis who are uncomfortable with the people around them. However, the question of why it is that such people aren't comfortable with anyone around them is the bigger one in my mind. > Please drink responsibily To me, although they work, suicide hotlines appear to be a naked corporate CYA, just like gambling and other addiction hotlines. Civilization will beat you down, won't give you health insurance except for a few free COVID shots (then, suddenly, people can totally mobilize to administer collective healthcare), but hey when you've just about had it, here's a hotline you can call (and we'll sell your data hahahahaha sucker).
freedomben 5mo ago
To me, the hotline is an absolute joke and one of the last things I would do if I were contemplating harming myself. I've often wondered if there is hard data showing it is effective overall, or whether it's just bandwagon group think run amok. I have lost a number of friends to suicide, and as a result I spent a significant amount of time thinking about what could have been done to have helped them before it was too late. In nearly all cases, it was pretty well thought out and not a spur of the moment thing. In some cases, they even took steps to prevent people from discovering their plans. So anecdotally, a suicide hotline would not have helped at all. Based on some searching though, it seems like there is data showing that it helps on the whole. I guess for people who are having a spur of the moment thought, it might be potentially helpful. However I also found some people saying that seeing the prolific messages about calling the hotline when searching for information about things really pushed them away and somewhat backfired. I guess ultimately this is a very complex issue with no one size fits all solution. If I ever get to a point where I no longer have to work, this is a cause I would love to work on for the people that tend to think it through more and less spontaneous.
- sailfast 5mo ago
  Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Calling a therapist is similar to a "hotline" but you need to have a therapist first, which is a pain in the ass. Making that easier would be a good concrete second step (which a hotline can also help with!)
  - giantg2 5mo ago
    "sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?" There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social media, etc.
MyelinatedT 5mo ago
As another, intermittently suicidal person, I have never received helpful support from a hotline. In fact, I have never managed to speak to another human on the phone at all. Out of four hotline calls in my life, mostly as an older teenager, I waited for >1 hour in every case, listening to pre-recorded “please continue holding, we will get to you” messages and elevator music, before giving up. The only time I contacted a human it was via a text chat, and the interaction was laughably shallow — they hit me repeatedly with condescending, “reflective listening”-style questions and basically offered no depth or consideration to my situation, or me as a person. If these services demonstrably save lives then that’s great, but they did absolutely nothing for me.
an0malous 5mo ago
I think many people, not all, who are labeled “mentally ill” are just more attuned to the truth that society is depressing and anxiety inducing. In other words, the so called normal people are the crazy ones. But we define mental illness relative to how well someone can function in society, that’s literally how the DSM is used, even though society is clearly mad and perverse and 10 minutes on Twitter or reading the news is more than enough evidence to draw that conclusion. Every tech CEO or celebrity or successful person could be diagnosed with a multitude of mental illnesses, but because they’re “productive” members of society we glorify them instead. Explain to me how it’s normal and healthy to work 100 hours a week, take ketamine and adderall and other hardcode drugs regularly, post rants on the Internet at 3am, go make a decision that hurts or kills thousands of people, and then hit up the golf club after. Then we take the people who notice all of this madness and tell them they’re crazy, ill, and malfunctioning. We put them in this Kafkaesque nightmare of gaslighting that probably does drive them mad over time. I don’t want to say that if you’re hearing voices telling you to do things that you’re ok, but if you just feel depressed or anxious I think there’s a good chance you’re just awake to the sickness of society that most people are still in denial about and it might make you feel better to know you’re not the broken one. You still need to figure out how to adapt to the world, but just knowing you’re not broken gives you a foundation to build from.
- lonely_wanderer 5mo ago
  I understand the point you make but I would counter that being happy doesn’t mean you aren’t aware of the world and injustice around you. It doesn’t mean that you condone it, think it’s good, etc. It does mean you probably avoid self-destructive behaviors like excess drug use, poor sleep, etc. Many happy people are also agitators for change. Not to say that happiness is a choice, but you can certainly make choices which make you sick with anxiety. It’s a disordered behavior to purposefully reinforce your sadness and anxiety about the world for no useful reason. For instance, many people feel compelled to expose themselves to the horror of certain ongoing events constantly, via video. There are whole subreddits dedicated to it, on every side of most conflicts. At the end of the day, that is neither healthy nor productive, solely self-traumatizing. One reason this is a pernicious behavior is because it feels like there is righteousness in being a witness, but in reality it’s no different than self-harm.
muvlon 5mo ago
The logical next step is to replace the suicide hotline operators with AI. And maybe add a way for other people to gamble on the results.
- timcobb 5mo ago
  You're getting downvoted but that IS the logical next step and it will totally happen.
watwut 5mo ago
Those hotlines literally drop suicide rates. They wont help everyone, but they do have good track record of helping people.
- nephihaha 5mo ago
  Many of these people do want someone to talk to 24/7, and they may well be isolated. They are not the only solution but one of them. One of my friends was turned away from an NHS hospital the year before last and took his own life.
chaosharmonic 5mo ago
I saw a LinkedIn thread just the other day that called it the "suicide prevention industrial complex," and that phrase will stick in my head like "orphan crushing machine" or "leopards eating faces"
- sailfast 5mo ago
  What on earth is the "industrial complex" part about this? Outside of pharma pushing pills I'm not sure what other profit-seeking, recursive elements exist in the "suicide prevention industry". Legitimately curious about this - not sure how these words would apply.
  - clickety_clack 5mo ago
    I would much rather the suicide-prevention people become rich than the infinite-scroll advertising guys.
  - hirvi74 5mo ago
    Not entirely sure what the GP meant either, but maybe it's like sports betting? Where some companies are heavily advertising and trying to get people to become "responsible gamblers" (addicted), meanwhile, some of those same companies are investing in mental health treatment facilities on the side. Thus, those gambling companies can make money off gambling addicts and when gambling addicts try to quit. As the saying goes, the house always wins. https://www.barrons.com/articles/sports-betting-problem-gambling-addiction-sites-6838c311 https://www.barrons.com/articles/sports-betting-problem-gamb...
    - chaosharmonic 5mo ago
      Um. I don't have the link directly in front of me, but the tl;dr of the OP's point (that I was referencing/quoting in the above comment) was that, in the US, our efforts around suicide prevention are last resort options, that we offer instead of actually fixing any of the things that make people here suicidal. We gut mental health resources, and fuck people over in pretty much every other critical, material way -- healthcare and otherwise... But meanwhile we make a big deal about how we have a hotline, and how the number is even easy to remember now. It's sort of like how we give enormous amounts of money to cops (institutionally), instead of funding the safety nets that actually reduce crime. Actually (edit), those analogies are kind of related, because the same safety nets are important for driving down both of these things. Yk, because people are more stable in other ways when they aren't in desperation all the time. You might say it's the difference between emergency services and emergency prevention. Edit: I did eventually find the source. https://linkedin.com/posts/tabitha-lean-5786011a3_nspc26-activity-7456137147872452608-hEfq https://linkedin.com/posts/tabitha-lean-5786011a3_nspc26-act...
andsoitis 5mo ago
> It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call What is it telling?
athrowaway3z 5mo ago
I wasn't going to comment, but this is just too dumb on too many levels. The hotline is not the way to deal with suicidality - suicidality is a longer process and something you can ask your GP about and most help is covered under most western versions of universal health care. The hotline is an idea that intervenes in the last steps of a suicide process. The idea can reach into the moment where people have convinced themselves they're stuck - and they can reach out with extremely low effort or barrier to entry. If you have some better 'idea' we can spread into the culture that does this better, then by all means enlighten us. --- You could have made a case and started a discussion how too many people see the existence of the hotline as _the_ way to deal with suicidality, but you didn't. You just decided to spread some shallow vibe nonsense.
gitaarik 5mo ago
This is meant for people that are socially isolated, and don't have anyone to talk to about their personal issues and challenges. It's of course not great that it supposedly has a need to exists. But the fact that it is there to provide help to people that can't get it anywhere else, is a good thing I would think. Edit: Apart from that, the people that are running it are probably not technically skilled or aware, so privacy issues like this should be highlighted.

by timcobb 5mo ago

baigy 5mo ago

Learnt a new word today: suicidality. Sounds like physicality, but with deadly consequences.

mothballed 5mo ago

I've heard the Dutch one is is a little better. The ones in the USA aren't likely to do much more than call police to put a mental hold on you, during which the hospital will rack up so many bills that it would make anyone suicidal. And then yay, your gun rights gone forever, so if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards!

ceejayoz 5mo ago
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-suggests-rarely/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-s... > Many people in mental health crisis fear that if they dial 988, law enforcement might show up or they might be forced to go to the hospital. > But getting sent that kind of "involuntary emergency rescue" happens to around 1% of callers, suggests new data from Vibrant Emotional Health, the administrator of the 988 Lifeline for suicide and mental health crises.
- hilariously 5mo ago
  If anything I did had a 1% chance of involuntary committal I would stop doing that thing immediately.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    Does that include “untreated suicidal ideation”?
    - hilariously 5mo ago
      Yep, as someone who suffers from depression and suicidal ideation regularly its been made very clear to me on multiple occasions that I would rather be in this state than interface with involuntary committal. I don't know what points you are looking to score here.
      - ceejayoz 5mo ago
        I have several loved ones in the same situation, including two who've wound up in hospital in this way. I'm glad they did. Fun? No. But better than dying.
        hilariously 5mo ago
        I get it, I am not advocating to live unmedicated or anything, but pretty much every emergency medical experience I have had any contact with in the USA has been so universally painful and dehumanizing that it gives me extreme pause, I would not willingly engage with it.
        ceejayoz 5mo ago
        I'm fine with someone making that call for themselves with personal experience, although doing it in a sound state of mind can be challenging in crisis. I'd just caution you that it's not a universal experience. As with, say, COVID masking, some people found it abhorrent, and others still voluntarily mask today; some found lockdowns almost fun, others despised even the thought of staying home for a few days. Statistically, police/committment intervention from calling the hotline is rare, and another commenter linked evidence (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48122550 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48122550) of significant benefits to balance it.
gowld 5mo ago
You really think that legal prohibition on gun ownership is more a difference in life-and-death due to murder risk than suicide risk?
wholinator2 5mo ago
So from what i understand the only way your gun rights are "gone forever" is if a court ordered you to go to a mental hospital. If it's just a 911 call and a ride to the hospital (every trip to the "grippy sock hotel" I've ever seen), that does not apply and your gun rights are not removed federally. Some states have "red flag" laws but to my understanding those are temporary and end either after a time period or a court petition. I'm curious what laws you're talking about in the US that would take your gun rights for a suicide call.
- mothballed 5mo ago
  Involuntary commitment. Happened to a good friend of mine during a nasty divorce, the husband made up a suicidal story and my friend was committed without the court appointing her a lawyer to defend herself. She's struggling to get her rights back, it is apparently possible, but they're gone forever until you spend a lot of money on lawyers so it's true it's not strictly the case you can't get them back but they default to staying gone forever.
  - mx7zysuj4xew 5mo ago
    Just curious, but did this person have a history of emotional lability plus previous (voluntary) outpatient treatment?
    - aftbit 5mo ago
      This is just another form of stigma. Better to go without getting treated for mental health issues, or that very responsible decision to seek treatment will be used against you later. See also the jump seat pilot who tried to pull the fire handles on a commercial flight.
- cj 5mo ago
  This heavily depends on the state. E.g. NY is not friendly in this scenario depending on the type of permit and the type of hold. An involuntary hold will impact your right to have a gun.
llm_nerd 5mo ago
Seems like one of those situations where damned if they do, damned if they don't, isn't it? Like if someone is in immediate crisis what do you expect them to do? I feel like if someone is calling a line, they are looking for intervention. If someone cries for help and the response is ensuring that someone doesn't fearmonger on Hacker News, I feel like that would be a problem. "And then yay, your gun rights gone forever" Gun owners are much more likely to kill themself with said gun than to ever defend themselves in any way, and anyone who has ideations should be the last person to want a gun. And suicide mostly afflicts white middle-aged males, most of whom don't live in "dangerous impoverished shitholes". I doubt the correlation is more than random.
- cindyllm 5mo ago
  [dead]
iepathos 5mo ago
Gun rights are generally not gone forever. Federal law bars people adjudicated mentally defective or formally committed to a mental institution, neither of which include a temporary mental hold for suicide watch. State laws vary, but none of them have a law where a single temporary hold means "gun rights gone forever." Some states let people go buy a gun the day they are released from suicide watch, despite how irresponsible that sounds.
- mothballed 5mo ago
  The temporary can easily turn into an adjudicated one. Happened to one of my friends during a nasty divorce, the high-IQ husband knew all the buttons to press to the state and kept fabricating to the state that the suicidal ideation was ongoing (it never existed in the first place) and then they committed my friend based on that. He was then successful in getting my friend's ability to defend herself removed so that she would be defenseless.
the_af 5mo ago
> if you are suicidal in part because you live in a dangerous impoverished shithole good luck defending yourself afterwards! Is realistically "gun ownership" a plus in this scenario?
retired 5mo ago
In The Netherlands you can be involuntarily committed to a mental hospital due to risk of suicide, still get a weapons license, buy half a dozen guns and then go on a shooting rampage killing 7 and wounding 17 (Alphen a/d Rijn shooting, 2011).
tosti 5mo ago
They follow a flowchart. Most of it involves trying to figure out if you know any friends or family nearby. I guess finding someone for comfort might make sense, but the flowchart is too obvious and makes it sound like another typical marketing callcenter.
sailfast 5mo ago
This is not a comment on gun rights, but, IF you are having issues with suicide and depression I would absolutely remove those weapons from your house and access. Talk to a friend you trust. Have them stored. Something. Having them nearby is only going to increase the odds you end up dead.

Madmallard 5mo ago

when society gets too big, sociopathy and opportunism win out

dylan604 5mo ago

The NYT released an article[0], sorry paywalled, that discusses the effectiveness of the 988 hotline in lowering the number of suicides where it is available. Sadly, because of the joke that is mental health coverage in the US, that's as good of news as I've got for you. Mental health coverage isn't even available on the open market AMA (Obama Care), so 988 is the best we can offer. [0]https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicides-decline.html https://www.nytimes.com/2026/04/22/science/988-youth-suicide...

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

gowld 5mo ago

The hotline is isn't "selling" the data. The hotline installed analytics software to help them do their job. Do "non-Western culture have a better solution to suicidality?

mothballed 5mo ago
A quick sweep of the lowest 20 countries in suicide and the most obvious thing that can be teased out is they're by vast majority extremely conservative societies where family and religion (mostly Islam) would likely dominate the goals of any person living there (with a couple exceptions). Only about half of the lowest 10 have any sort of functional welfare or state support programs. I wonder if having a pretty rigid, straightforward, and achievable set of life goals lowers suicide. This isn't to say that's the best way to live, but I could understand how it may make people more satisfied with their life.
- keybored 5mo ago
  To guess that people in countries with lower suicide are more satisfied is one possibility.
  - mothballed 5mo ago
    Satisfaction isn't even conditional on most of the rest of what I said, so even if the guess is wrong it doesn't change my statement much.
- vanviegen 5mo ago
  Suicide is not an attractive option if you believe that you'll be eternally punished for it in the after life.
- graemep 5mo ago
  I think its very hard to draw conclusions. The country with the lowest rate is majority Christian and AFAIK is not extremely conservative: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... A second list on that page gives different numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#List_by_other_sources_and_years_(1985%E2%80%932023) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_r... In between is a table that shows the suicide rate is much lower in "upper middle income" countries than in either poorer or richer countries. I suspect that is a pointer. Affluent enough not to be constantly struggling, but different in some ways (urbanisation? materialism? isolation?) from the rich countries. You also need to look at other factors. Conservative countries have younger populations, so you need to correct for that. Not all countries have equally accurate statistics. I think conservative countries may have an advantage because of larger families, extended families, fewer people being single (and less isolated if they are) etc. but it needs more data. There are some pretty conservative countries with high rates.

miltonlost 5mo ago

What do you advocate for to help people contemplating suicide? WHat do non-Western culture do to "deal with suicidality"? The issue is when the hotline is selling the data and not that the hotline itself exists.

throw0101c 5mo ago

"Young adult suicide rates dropped after U.S. launched 988 hotline": * https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotline-linked-to-drop-in-young-adult-suicide-rates/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/988-crisis-hotlin... "Suicide deaths dropped 11% from projected rate in the first two years of the revamped lifeline" * https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-percent-drop-youth-suicide-jama-study/ https://www.statnews.com/2026/04/22/988-hotline-linked-11-pe...

timcobb 5mo ago
Yes, they seem to work for many people. I don't mean to belittle that, I guess that is good. But, I'm not sure how that's interesting because "something works for somebody" is true for just about every category. For example, some people want to work at Palantir and find it interesting that some executive named Steve Cohen runs the AC at 60 degrees and eats ice cubes all day to aid cognition[0]. There's a very wide diversity of people out there, so the fact that some find this appealing is not interesting or surprising. So, the question, in my mind, is less that something works for somebody, and more about the broader meaning of this civilizational function. [0] https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir https://nabeelqu.substack.com/p/reflections-on-palantir (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41855006)
- mden 5mo ago
  Can you explain what your point really was then? Belittling the idea of hotlines seemed central in your messaging and the possible exploitation of data more of a secondary thing. It's fine to be cynical but it's also good to remember that there are real people that do care and try to improve the world as well.
  - timcobb 5mo ago
    Sure, concretely, my point was that hotlines are a very capitalist feeling thing for me. Probably because of trying to deal with corporiations, from monopolies/utilities to things like airlines. My experience in this realm has been one of alienation. So, taking the hotline and applying it to people in suicidal crisis is like peak alienation in my mind. Personally, I'm not anti-capitalist, but capitalism to me is tied up conceptually with money and expedience. Feelings, in my opinion, are sort of in a different human realm. But yes, for sure, that alienation as I allege it, is probably good for many people in crisis who are uncomfortable with the people around them. However, the question of why it is that such people aren't comfortable with anyone around them is the bigger one in my mind. > Please drink responsibily To me, although they work, suicide hotlines appear to be a naked corporate CYA, just like gambling and other addiction hotlines. Civilization will beat you down, won't give you health insurance except for a few free COVID shots (then, suddenly, people can totally mobilize to administer collective healthcare), but hey when you've just about had it, here's a hotline you can call (and we'll sell your data hahahahaha sucker).

freedomben 5mo ago

To me, the hotline is an absolute joke and one of the last things I would do if I were contemplating harming myself. I've often wondered if there is hard data showing it is effective overall, or whether it's just bandwagon group think run amok. I have lost a number of friends to suicide, and as a result I spent a significant amount of time thinking about what could have been done to have helped them before it was too late. In nearly all cases, it was pretty well thought out and not a spur of the moment thing. In some cases, they even took steps to prevent people from discovering their plans. So anecdotally, a suicide hotline would not have helped at all. Based on some searching though, it seems like there is data showing that it helps on the whole. I guess for people who are having a spur of the moment thought, it might be potentially helpful. However I also found some people saying that seeing the prolific messages about calling the hotline when searching for information about things really pushed them away and somewhat backfired. I guess ultimately this is a very complex issue with no one size fits all solution. If I ever get to a point where I no longer have to work, this is a cause I would love to work on for the people that tend to think it through more and less spontaneous.

sailfast 5mo ago
Having an option to talk to someone when you're alone and having trouble getting out of your own head is a great option. If you don't know what to do and you only see death as the option, having someone give you options seems like a good thing to have available at a relatively low cost. I don't think anyone is expecting this to "solve suicide" but it sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing? Calling a therapist is similar to a "hotline" but you need to have a therapist first, which is a pain in the ass. Making that easier would be a good concrete second step (which a hotline can also help with!)
- giantg2 5mo ago
  "sure as hell beats the alternative of... :checks notes: nothing?" There seem to be many things that we could do, like addressing suicide as a social contagion including in media portrayal, providing better substance abuse and mental health treatment options, etc. A hotline is like a bandaid - its not going to fix the underlying societal issues like disconnection, lack of community, lack of opportunity/hope, social media, etc.

MyelinatedT 5mo ago

As another, intermittently suicidal person, I have never received helpful support from a hotline. In fact, I have never managed to speak to another human on the phone at all. Out of four hotline calls in my life, mostly as an older teenager, I waited for >1 hour in every case, listening to pre-recorded “please continue holding, we will get to you” messages and elevator music, before giving up. The only time I contacted a human it was via a text chat, and the interaction was laughably shallow — they hit me repeatedly with condescending, “reflective listening”-style questions and basically offered no depth or consideration to my situation, or me as a person. If these services demonstrably save lives then that’s great, but they did absolutely nothing for me.

an0malous 5mo ago

I think many people, not all, who are labeled “mentally ill” are just more attuned to the truth that society is depressing and anxiety inducing. In other words, the so called normal people are the crazy ones. But we define mental illness relative to how well someone can function in society, that’s literally how the DSM is used, even though society is clearly mad and perverse and 10 minutes on Twitter or reading the news is more than enough evidence to draw that conclusion. Every tech CEO or celebrity or successful person could be diagnosed with a multitude of mental illnesses, but because they’re “productive” members of society we glorify them instead. Explain to me how it’s normal and healthy to work 100 hours a week, take ketamine and adderall and other hardcode drugs regularly, post rants on the Internet at 3am, go make a decision that hurts or kills thousands of people, and then hit up the golf club after. Then we take the people who notice all of this madness and tell them they’re crazy, ill, and malfunctioning. We put them in this Kafkaesque nightmare of gaslighting that probably does drive them mad over time. I don’t want to say that if you’re hearing voices telling you to do things that you’re ok, but if you just feel depressed or anxious I think there’s a good chance you’re just awake to the sickness of society that most people are still in denial about and it might make you feel better to know you’re not the broken one. You still need to figure out how to adapt to the world, but just knowing you’re not broken gives you a foundation to build from.

lonely_wanderer 5mo ago
I understand the point you make but I would counter that being happy doesn’t mean you aren’t aware of the world and injustice around you. It doesn’t mean that you condone it, think it’s good, etc. It does mean you probably avoid self-destructive behaviors like excess drug use, poor sleep, etc. Many happy people are also agitators for change. Not to say that happiness is a choice, but you can certainly make choices which make you sick with anxiety. It’s a disordered behavior to purposefully reinforce your sadness and anxiety about the world for no useful reason. For instance, many people feel compelled to expose themselves to the horror of certain ongoing events constantly, via video. There are whole subreddits dedicated to it, on every side of most conflicts. At the end of the day, that is neither healthy nor productive, solely self-traumatizing. One reason this is a pernicious behavior is because it feels like there is righteousness in being a witness, but in reality it’s no different than self-harm.

muvlon 5mo ago

The logical next step is to replace the suicide hotline operators with AI. And maybe add a way for other people to gamble on the results.

timcobb 5mo ago
You're getting downvoted but that IS the logical next step and it will totally happen.

watwut 5mo ago

Those hotlines literally drop suicide rates. They wont help everyone, but they do have good track record of helping people.

nephihaha 5mo ago
Many of these people do want someone to talk to 24/7, and they may well be isolated. They are not the only solution but one of them. One of my friends was turned away from an NHS hospital the year before last and took his own life.

chaosharmonic 5mo ago

I saw a LinkedIn thread just the other day that called it the "suicide prevention industrial complex," and that phrase will stick in my head like "orphan crushing machine" or "leopards eating faces"

sailfast 5mo ago
What on earth is the "industrial complex" part about this? Outside of pharma pushing pills I'm not sure what other profit-seeking, recursive elements exist in the "suicide prevention industry". Legitimately curious about this - not sure how these words would apply.
- clickety_clack 5mo ago
  I would much rather the suicide-prevention people become rich than the infinite-scroll advertising guys.
- hirvi74 5mo ago
  Not entirely sure what the GP meant either, but maybe it's like sports betting? Where some companies are heavily advertising and trying to get people to become "responsible gamblers" (addicted), meanwhile, some of those same companies are investing in mental health treatment facilities on the side. Thus, those gambling companies can make money off gambling addicts and when gambling addicts try to quit. As the saying goes, the house always wins. https://www.barrons.com/articles/sports-betting-problem-gambling-addiction-sites-6838c311 https://www.barrons.com/articles/sports-betting-problem-gamb...
  - chaosharmonic 5mo ago
    Um. I don't have the link directly in front of me, but the tl;dr of the OP's point (that I was referencing/quoting in the above comment) was that, in the US, our efforts around suicide prevention are last resort options, that we offer instead of actually fixing any of the things that make people here suicidal. We gut mental health resources, and fuck people over in pretty much every other critical, material way -- healthcare and otherwise... But meanwhile we make a big deal about how we have a hotline, and how the number is even easy to remember now. It's sort of like how we give enormous amounts of money to cops (institutionally), instead of funding the safety nets that actually reduce crime. Actually (edit), those analogies are kind of related, because the same safety nets are important for driving down both of these things. Yk, because people are more stable in other ways when they aren't in desperation all the time. You might say it's the difference between emergency services and emergency prevention. Edit: I did eventually find the source. https://linkedin.com/posts/tabitha-lean-5786011a3_nspc26-activity-7456137147872452608-hEfq https://linkedin.com/posts/tabitha-lean-5786011a3_nspc26-act...

andsoitis 5mo ago

> It's telling, IMO, that Western cultures deals with suicidality with hotlines you can call What is it telling?

athrowaway3z 5mo ago

I wasn't going to comment, but this is just too dumb on too many levels. The hotline is not the way to deal with suicidality - suicidality is a longer process and something you can ask your GP about and most help is covered under most western versions of universal health care. The hotline is an idea that intervenes in the last steps of a suicide process. The idea can reach into the moment where people have convinced themselves they're stuck - and they can reach out with extremely low effort or barrier to entry. If you have some better 'idea' we can spread into the culture that does this better, then by all means enlighten us. --- You could have made a case and started a discussion how too many people see the existence of the hotline as _the_ way to deal with suicidality, but you didn't. You just decided to spread some shallow vibe nonsense.

gitaarik 5mo ago

This is meant for people that are socially isolated, and don't have anyone to talk to about their personal issues and challenges. It's of course not great that it supposedly has a need to exists. But the fact that it is there to provide help to people that can't get it anywhere else, is a good thing I would think. Edit: Apart from that, the people that are running it are probably not technically skilled or aware, so privacy issues like this should be highlighted.