4 ms·

As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant ti

As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.

drstewart 6mo ago
[flagged]
- onemoresoop 6mo ago
  EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
  - drstewart 6mo ago
    There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
    - wolvoleo 6mo ago
      I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
      - onemoresoop 6mo ago
        Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
    - onemoresoop 6mo ago
      Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
- wolvoleo 6mo ago
  An invasion threat isn't easily forgotten. Eventually things will be ok but America will have to prove itself again. Trust comes on foot and leaves on horseback. Even if Trump is replaced by a Democrat, the conditions that made Trump happen are still there. That won't change from one day to the next. And don't forget he already happened twice. 10-20 years of decent administrations will make things ok again. But of course our economies will be much more decoupled by then. That process has been set in motion now and won't easily stop. That can start going the other way again but things will have to meaningfully change then over time. As for Hungary I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I would have been happy to bump them back to candidate EU member during the Orban reign and let them prove themselves. Don't forget this Magyar guy is still super conservative. Just less anti EU. But unfortunately EU law didn't provide for the ability to throw a country out. That was a huge oversight.
  - drstewart 6mo ago
    You are right of course. Germany eventually rebuilt trust within Europe, but now have a highly decoupled economy from their neighbors. As you correctly point out.
    - wolvoleo 6mo ago
      No but it has been 80 years doh. When I was young there was still a lot of ill will and distrust against the Germans and that was 40+ years after the war. We were still joking about wanting our bikes back (the nazis stole everything metal at the end of the war to make weapons). And didn't like them at beach resorts etc. People would much rather buy American than German products. That's over now but it took a very long time. Which was exactly my point. Time and consistently good politics will heal this but time it will take. Of course the sooner you turn things around the better but the disconnection has already been set in motion and big ships turn slowly.
    - lava_pidgeon 6mo ago
      1.) after ww 2 European economies were very decoupled 2.) One guy mentions Netherlands but if we can think about Poland, Israel, Ukraine. Israel and Ukraine because Germany supported these countries militarily, in Poland financially but still ww2 is not forgotten. Btw. You can ask Canadian people what they thought about their annexation threats.
- FpUser 6mo ago
  >"So, what's the European thinking on Hungary as a partner within the EU in the future?" Does that really matter? They can not un-member it. And if current economic situation persists you will find more with the Orban like thinking.
chasd00 6mo ago
> It will take significant time to build trust again and nothing of value was lost. What did the US get out of the relationship?
- vga1 6mo ago
  gestures confusingly towards all the American digital services used in EU I thought that was exactly what is being talked about here.
- wolvoleo 6mo ago
  As vga1 says, a lot of American services are used by us. American goods too but not quite as much. When Trump complains about his trade balance he always ignores the revenue from services. The trade balance isn't actually bad when you include them. But also influence through alliance. Even a superpower can't go it alone and use their military to bend others to its will.
- pillefitz 6mo ago
  You can't be serious.
- OKRainbowKid 6mo ago
  Not sure, boatloads of money perhaps? And status as the global hegemon?
sisve 6mo ago
Yes. This is important to understand, the trust is broken for a long time. I do not think people will understand what has happend the last year. Europe is slowly (we always move slowly) moving away from US tech. The impact will not be seen/understood completely before 10-15 years have past

As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.

drstewart 6mo ago

[flagged]

onemoresoop 6mo ago
EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
- drstewart 6mo ago
  There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
  - wolvoleo 6mo ago
    I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
    - onemoresoop 6mo ago
      Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
  - onemoresoop 6mo ago
    Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
wolvoleo 6mo ago
An invasion threat isn't easily forgotten. Eventually things will be ok but America will have to prove itself again. Trust comes on foot and leaves on horseback. Even if Trump is replaced by a Democrat, the conditions that made Trump happen are still there. That won't change from one day to the next. And don't forget he already happened twice. 10-20 years of decent administrations will make things ok again. But of course our economies will be much more decoupled by then. That process has been set in motion now and won't easily stop. That can start going the other way again but things will have to meaningfully change then over time. As for Hungary I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I would have been happy to bump them back to candidate EU member during the Orban reign and let them prove themselves. Don't forget this Magyar guy is still super conservative. Just less anti EU. But unfortunately EU law didn't provide for the ability to throw a country out. That was a huge oversight.
- drstewart 6mo ago
  You are right of course. Germany eventually rebuilt trust within Europe, but now have a highly decoupled economy from their neighbors. As you correctly point out.
  - wolvoleo 6mo ago
    No but it has been 80 years doh. When I was young there was still a lot of ill will and distrust against the Germans and that was 40+ years after the war. We were still joking about wanting our bikes back (the nazis stole everything metal at the end of the war to make weapons). And didn't like them at beach resorts etc. People would much rather buy American than German products. That's over now but it took a very long time. Which was exactly my point. Time and consistently good politics will heal this but time it will take. Of course the sooner you turn things around the better but the disconnection has already been set in motion and big ships turn slowly.
  - lava_pidgeon 6mo ago
    1.) after ww 2 European economies were very decoupled 2.) One guy mentions Netherlands but if we can think about Poland, Israel, Ukraine. Israel and Ukraine because Germany supported these countries militarily, in Poland financially but still ww2 is not forgotten. Btw. You can ask Canadian people what they thought about their annexation threats.
FpUser 6mo ago
>"So, what's the European thinking on Hungary as a partner within the EU in the future?" Does that really matter? They can not un-member it. And if current economic situation persists you will find more with the Orban like thinking.

chasd00 6mo ago

> It will take significant time to build trust again and nothing of value was lost. What did the US get out of the relationship?

vga1 6mo ago
gestures confusingly towards all the American digital services used in EU I thought that was exactly what is being talked about here.
wolvoleo 6mo ago
As vga1 says, a lot of American services are used by us. American goods too but not quite as much. When Trump complains about his trade balance he always ignores the revenue from services. The trade balance isn't actually bad when you include them. But also influence through alliance. Even a superpower can't go it alone and use their military to bend others to its will.
pillefitz 6mo ago
You can't be serious.
OKRainbowKid 6mo ago
Not sure, boatloads of money perhaps? And status as the global hegemon?

sisve 6mo ago

Yes. This is important to understand, the trust is broken for a long time. I do not think people will understand what has happend the last year. Europe is slowly (we always move slowly) moving away from US tech. The impact will not be seen/understood completely before 10-15 years have past