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Cloudflare = NSA creation to get around HTTPS

by Winblows11 5mo ago

chrisweekly 5mo ago
citation?
- embedding-shape 5mo ago
  Have to wait for the next Snowden before you get any citations. NSA collaborator or not, the mere existence of something like Cloudflare, which also tries to nudge you into skipping internal http/tls and just use that at the front, makes it highly likely that NSA is already deep in their infrastructure, just like they've been in the past for literally any big technology company in the US. But yeah, zero citations, zero evidence, just based on history and what the goal of the organization is, it's pretty clear what's going on already.
  - nozzlegear 5mo ago
    So just conjecture and speculation, then.
    - embedding-shape 5mo ago
      Yes, just like expecting the sun to also rise tomorrow is mostly conjecture and speculation since we cannot see into the future, yet.
      - cindyllm 5mo ago
        [dead]
      - nozzlegear 5mo ago
        This is just categorically different and epistemically dishonest. It is, frankly, an embarrassing attempt to defend the fact that you don't actually have any evidence to support the claim that Cloudflare is supposedly an NSA creation beyond "believe me bro, ever heard of PRISM?"
        LtWorf 5mo ago
        After the snowden revelations, believing otherwise is beyond faith.
        embedding-shape 5mo ago
        > actually have any evidence to support the claim that Cloudflare is supposedly an NSA creation beyond I never claimed so, never would either, so who's being dishonest now? What I've said is that NSA compromises everything they can get their hands on (lots of evidence of this), assuming that Cloudflare aren't compromised by NSA already would be foolish, but you're right, this is an assumption on my part, I won't claim I have proof of this, just like I don't have proof that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I do assume so too.
    - deleted 5mo ago
      [deleted]
  - chrisweekly 4mo ago
    Ok, that makes sense. "Likely, based on heuristics" is sufficient to inform your opinions and decisions about Cloudflare. I was hoping you might have something more concrete, but appreciate the thoughtful reply. Tangent: I found your blog in your profile and liked your post on "Good Taste"^1 1. https://emsh.cat/en/good-taste/ https://emsh.cat/en/good-taste/
- philipwhiuk 5mo ago
  Why would they not when they have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]
iso1631 5mo ago
I think it's more likely they just use/abuse it than specifically created it, same as things like google spyware. The NSA's desires and the ad industry are aligned, so its a match made in heaven.

Cloudflare = NSA creation to get around HTTPS

chrisweekly 5mo ago

citation?

embedding-shape 5mo ago
Have to wait for the next Snowden before you get any citations. NSA collaborator or not, the mere existence of something like Cloudflare, which also tries to nudge you into skipping internal http/tls and just use that at the front, makes it highly likely that NSA is already deep in their infrastructure, just like they've been in the past for literally any big technology company in the US. But yeah, zero citations, zero evidence, just based on history and what the goal of the organization is, it's pretty clear what's going on already.
- nozzlegear 5mo ago
  So just conjecture and speculation, then.
  - embedding-shape 5mo ago
    Yes, just like expecting the sun to also rise tomorrow is mostly conjecture and speculation since we cannot see into the future, yet.
    - cindyllm 5mo ago
      [dead]
    - nozzlegear 5mo ago
      This is just categorically different and epistemically dishonest. It is, frankly, an embarrassing attempt to defend the fact that you don't actually have any evidence to support the claim that Cloudflare is supposedly an NSA creation beyond "believe me bro, ever heard of PRISM?"
      - LtWorf 5mo ago
        After the snowden revelations, believing otherwise is beyond faith.
      - embedding-shape 5mo ago
        > actually have any evidence to support the claim that Cloudflare is supposedly an NSA creation beyond I never claimed so, never would either, so who's being dishonest now? What I've said is that NSA compromises everything they can get their hands on (lots of evidence of this), assuming that Cloudflare aren't compromised by NSA already would be foolish, but you're right, this is an assumption on my part, I won't claim I have proof of this, just like I don't have proof that the sun will rise tomorrow, but I do assume so too.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
- chrisweekly 4mo ago
  Ok, that makes sense. "Likely, based on heuristics" is sufficient to inform your opinions and decisions about Cloudflare. I was hoping you might have something more concrete, but appreciate the thoughtful reply. Tangent: I found your blog in your profile and liked your post on "Good Taste"^1 1. https://emsh.cat/en/good-taste/ https://emsh.cat/en/good-taste/
philipwhiuk 5mo ago
Why would they not when they have https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]

iso1631 5mo ago

I think it's more likely they just use/abuse it than specifically created it, same as things like google spyware. The NSA's desires and the ad industry are aligned, so its a match made in heaven.