4 ms·

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

by sisve 5mo ago

rf15 5mo ago
We have gained a lot of confidence that having control ourselves is actually enormously valuable.
PaulKeeble 5mo ago
The USA is threatening war with the the EU and its allies. A loss of trust doesn't quite convey the seriousness of relationship destruction this causes and the monumental shift that is now happening.
- kzrdude 5mo ago
  Leaders are not conveying so much about the loss of trust, because they are saving face for the US to try to rescue what little can be rescued of the remaining relationship.
  - j_maffe 5mo ago
    probably also to not make feel Trump too isolated in fears he does something unfixable.
- sisve 5mo ago
  This is how politicians speak. A loss of trust is actually very serious. The Norwegian foreign minister is saying that the US is no longer sharing our values. That is a _big_ change for us.
wolvoleo 5mo ago
As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.
- drstewart 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - onemoresoop 5mo ago
    EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
    - drstewart 5mo ago
      There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
      - wolvoleo 5mo ago
        I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
        onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
      - onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
  - wolvoleo 5mo ago
    An invasion threat isn't easily forgotten. Eventually things will be ok but America will have to prove itself again. Trust comes on foot and leaves on horseback. Even if Trump is replaced by a Democrat, the conditions that made Trump happen are still there. That won't change from one day to the next. And don't forget he already happened twice. 10-20 years of decent administrations will make things ok again. But of course our economies will be much more decoupled by then. That process has been set in motion now and won't easily stop. That can start going the other way again but things will have to meaningfully change then over time. As for Hungary I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I would have been happy to bump them back to candidate EU member during the Orban reign and let them prove themselves. Don't forget this Magyar guy is still super conservative. Just less anti EU. But unfortunately EU law didn't provide for the ability to throw a country out. That was a huge oversight.
pastage 5mo ago
The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues.
- drstewart 5mo ago
  So true. Now, what level of blame can we put on the EU for not supporting Ukraine more over the past few years, with all the vetoes from Hungary?
  - vrganj 5mo ago
    I'm not sure what you're referring to: https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukrai...
    - drstewart 5mo ago
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban. Trust is broken forever.
      - vrganj 5mo ago
        Look at the numbers.
      - FpUser 5mo ago
        >"Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban." Well, EU and the rest of the world owes nothing to Ukraine, yet they have provided much help. Blind trust is stupid anyways. Especially between countries. >"Trust is broken forever." This sounds like a drama queen. Look at your own politicians first.
vrganj 5mo ago
The fact that you're being downvoted for this shows that Americans are not unaware, but actively in denial instead.
chasd00 5mo ago
trust or not, US vs EU or somewhere else, you should be in charge of your data and your data should be subject to your laws and yours alone. It only makes sense. /lives in the US
- palata 5mo ago
  Agreed, but that's not how it was because of trust. And now it's changing because of lack of trust. It often feels like US people never trusted the EU and now feel offended when EU people say "we don't trust the US anymore". I find that interesting.

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

by sisve 5mo ago

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

rf15 5mo ago

We have gained a lot of confidence that having control ourselves is actually enormously valuable.

PaulKeeble 5mo ago

The USA is threatening war with the the EU and its allies. A loss of trust doesn't quite convey the seriousness of relationship destruction this causes and the monumental shift that is now happening.

kzrdude 5mo ago
Leaders are not conveying so much about the loss of trust, because they are saving face for the US to try to rescue what little can be rescued of the remaining relationship.
- j_maffe 5mo ago
  probably also to not make feel Trump too isolated in fears he does something unfixable.
sisve 5mo ago
This is how politicians speak. A loss of trust is actually very serious. The Norwegian foreign minister is saying that the US is no longer sharing our values. That is a _big_ change for us.

wolvoleo 5mo ago

As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.

drstewart 5mo ago
[flagged]
- onemoresoop 5mo ago
  EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
  - drstewart 5mo ago
    There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
    - wolvoleo 5mo ago
      I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
      - onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
    - onemoresoop 5mo ago
      Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
- wolvoleo 5mo ago
  An invasion threat isn't easily forgotten. Eventually things will be ok but America will have to prove itself again. Trust comes on foot and leaves on horseback. Even if Trump is replaced by a Democrat, the conditions that made Trump happen are still there. That won't change from one day to the next. And don't forget he already happened twice. 10-20 years of decent administrations will make things ok again. But of course our economies will be much more decoupled by then. That process has been set in motion now and won't easily stop. That can start going the other way again but things will have to meaningfully change then over time. As for Hungary I still don't trust them as far as I can throw them. I would have been happy to bump them back to candidate EU member during the Orban reign and let them prove themselves. Don't forget this Magyar guy is still super conservative. Just less anti EU. But unfortunately EU law didn't provide for the ability to throw a country out. That was a huge oversight.

pastage 5mo ago

The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues.

drstewart 5mo ago
So true. Now, what level of blame can we put on the EU for not supporting Ukraine more over the past few years, with all the vetoes from Hungary?
- vrganj 5mo ago
  I'm not sure what you're referring to: https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukrai...
  - drstewart 5mo ago
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban. Trust is broken forever.
    - vrganj 5mo ago
      Look at the numbers.
    - FpUser 5mo ago
      >"Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban." Well, EU and the rest of the world owes nothing to Ukraine, yet they have provided much help. Blind trust is stupid anyways. Especially between countries. >"Trust is broken forever." This sounds like a drama queen. Look at your own politicians first.

vrganj 5mo ago

The fact that you're being downvoted for this shows that Americans are not unaware, but actively in denial instead.

chasd00 5mo ago

trust or not, US vs EU or somewhere else, you should be in charge of your data and your data should be subject to your laws and yours alone. It only makes sense. /lives in the US

palata 5mo ago
Agreed, but that's not how it was because of trust. And now it's changing because of lack of trust. It often feels like US people never trusted the EU and now feel offended when EU people say "we don't trust the US anymore". I find that interesting.