8 ms·

This is not a change. It has been asked since the advent of GDPR. So nearly 10 years.

radicalbyte 5mo ago
In some cases but not enough. Some of us has been doing a lot to help educate companies and business here and with the current administration - and the fact that they are being explicitly backed/funded by the Silicon Valley tech companies long resisted government overreach - have helped to finally open ears in boardrooms to the dangers of the Cloud Act and other leverage.
sisve 5mo ago
It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.
- rf15 5mo ago
  We have gained a lot of confidence that having control ourselves is actually enormously valuable.
- PaulKeeble 5mo ago
  The USA is threatening war with the the EU and its allies. A loss of trust doesn't quite convey the seriousness of relationship destruction this causes and the monumental shift that is now happening.
  - kzrdude 5mo ago
    Leaders are not conveying so much about the loss of trust, because they are saving face for the US to try to rescue what little can be rescued of the remaining relationship.
    - j_maffe 5mo ago
      probably also to not make feel Trump too isolated in fears he does something unfixable.
  - sisve 5mo ago
    This is how politicians speak. A loss of trust is actually very serious. The Norwegian foreign minister is saying that the US is no longer sharing our values. That is a _big_ change for us.
- wolvoleo 5mo ago
  As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.
  - drstewart 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - onemoresoop 5mo ago
      EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
      - drstewart 5mo ago
        There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
        wolvoleo 5mo ago
        I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
        onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
        onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
- pastage 5mo ago
  The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues.
  - drstewart 5mo ago
    So true. Now, what level of blame can we put on the EU for not supporting Ukraine more over the past few years, with all the vetoes from Hungary?
    - vrganj 5mo ago
      I'm not sure what you're referring to: https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukrai...
      - drstewart 5mo ago
        https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban. Trust is broken forever.
        vrganj 5mo ago
        Look at the numbers.
        FpUser 5mo ago
        >"Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban." Well, EU and the rest of the world owes nothing to Ukraine, yet they have provided much help. Blind trust is stupid anyways. Especially between countries. >"Trust is broken forever." This sounds like a drama queen. Look at your own politicians first.
- vrganj 5mo ago
  The fact that you're being downvoted for this shows that Americans are not unaware, but actively in denial instead.
- chasd00 5mo ago
  trust or not, US vs EU or somewhere else, you should be in charge of your data and your data should be subject to your laws and yours alone. It only makes sense. /lives in the US
  - palata 5mo ago
    Agreed, but that's not how it was because of trust. And now it's changing because of lack of trust. It often feels like US people never trusted the EU and now feel offended when EU people say "we don't trust the US anymore". I find that interesting.
CalRobert 5mo ago
GDPR gave us "oh cool AWS has eu-west-1 and pretends to comply so we can also pretend to comply" but I think the tone has shifted to actually caring, at least a little bit. And with the CLOUD act all the US based hyperscalars can't really offer compliant hosting.
pjc50 5mo ago
GDPR is a bureaucratic annoyance. Trump is an existential threat.
- joe_mamba 5mo ago
  Trump is not the core issue since he isn't a hereditary monarchical dictator. It's the US population that's the problem, since they voted to put him into power TWICE, which means that they can also do it again, and again, and again, for other candidates not named Trump and not always Republican, but who could be even more unhinged, so we need to do everything to decouple from them so that their election decisions will impact us less. No offence guys, but you do bare the responsibility of your democratic choices, as do we.
  - pjc50 5mo ago
    Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. The real enduring toxic legacy is the packing of SCOTUS, sold to voters as a means of overturning Roe V Wade but in fact a massive enabler for corruption and gerrymandering. Those guys are there until they die or Democrats grow a spine, probably the former.
    - joe_mamba 5mo ago
      >Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. Any democratically elected leader can cause huge problems during their mandate, not just Orban or Trump. You have to wait for elections or their term limit to kick them out peacefully. The difference is whatever the person in the US president seat does, massively affects the whole world, not just the US, which is why we talk a lot more about the huge problems Trump caused rather than what problem the president of Romania, HUngary or Greece cause in their own countries. The issue remains the voting population to not elect people like Orban or Trump at the next elections. The EU can cancel or sway elections in Romania or Hungary to make sure the right candidate wins, but it can't sway US elections in their favor.
      - pjc50 5mo ago

In some cases but not enough. Some of us has been doing a lot to help educate companies and business here and with the current administration - and the fact that they are being explicitly backed/funded by the Silicon Valley tech companies long resisted government overreach - have helped to finally open ears in boardrooms to the dangers of the Cloud Act and other leverage.

sisve 5mo ago

It started 10 years ago, but have def escalated the last year IMHO. Im sorry to say it, but i feel a lot of Europeans have lost a good deal of trust in the US.

rf15 5mo ago
We have gained a lot of confidence that having control ourselves is actually enormously valuable.
PaulKeeble 5mo ago
The USA is threatening war with the the EU and its allies. A loss of trust doesn't quite convey the seriousness of relationship destruction this causes and the monumental shift that is now happening.
- kzrdude 5mo ago
  Leaders are not conveying so much about the loss of trust, because they are saving face for the US to try to rescue what little can be rescued of the remaining relationship.
  - j_maffe 5mo ago
    probably also to not make feel Trump too isolated in fears he does something unfixable.
- sisve 5mo ago
  This is how politicians speak. A loss of trust is actually very serious. The Norwegian foreign minister is saying that the US is no longer sharing our values. That is a _big_ change for us.
wolvoleo 5mo ago
As a European: yes definitely. And that won't be fixed if you choose a sane administration again. There can always be another Trump. It will take significant time to build trust again.
- drstewart 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - onemoresoop 5mo ago
    EU wokeup from their sleep with backstabs all around. What a rude awakening indeed. Possibly some were dismissed when they raised this scenario as unlikely.
    - drstewart 5mo ago
      There can always be another Orban. Unless Europeans can never trust Hungary again and move away from them at lightspeed, I'm smelling hypocrisy.
      - wolvoleo 5mo ago
        I didn't say never. I just said, if America gets a sane administration again, things won't be automatically back to normal. There will be caution for years. Also, any new administration will spend years undoing all the destruction that has been done until things can be considered normal again. And yes I don't trust Hungary.
        onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Trust needs to be earned again, it’s a long process but ultimately it can be gained back
      - onemoresoop 5mo ago
        Im sure there are other would be Orbans ready to jump in. In fact the current US admin is stoking the fire openly.
pastage 5mo ago
The complete disinterest in international allies from the American public is troublesome. I recently was in a discussion about what kind of responsibility we can put on the residents of the US for this situation. A US lawyer answered "well the 25th amendment ties our hands, and we do a lot of protesting so no blame on us". The judgement on US citizens was pretty harsh. You guys have to work a lot harder to fix your issues.
- drstewart 5mo ago
  So true. Now, what level of blame can we put on the EU for not supporting Ukraine more over the past few years, with all the vetoes from Hungary?
  - vrganj 5mo ago
    I'm not sure what you're referring to: https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ https://www.kielinstitut.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukrai...
    - drstewart 5mo ago
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq6jrvgqeejo Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban. Trust is broken forever.
      - vrganj 5mo ago
        Look at the numbers.
      - FpUser 5mo ago
        >"Ukraine can never trust the EU again after this. There can always be another Orban." Well, EU and the rest of the world owes nothing to Ukraine, yet they have provided much help. Blind trust is stupid anyways. Especially between countries. >"Trust is broken forever." This sounds like a drama queen. Look at your own politicians first.
vrganj 5mo ago
The fact that you're being downvoted for this shows that Americans are not unaware, but actively in denial instead.
chasd00 5mo ago
trust or not, US vs EU or somewhere else, you should be in charge of your data and your data should be subject to your laws and yours alone. It only makes sense. /lives in the US
- palata 5mo ago
  Agreed, but that's not how it was because of trust. And now it's changing because of lack of trust. It often feels like US people never trusted the EU and now feel offended when EU people say "we don't trust the US anymore". I find that interesting.

CalRobert 5mo ago

GDPR gave us "oh cool AWS has eu-west-1 and pretends to comply so we can also pretend to comply" but I think the tone has shifted to actually caring, at least a little bit. And with the CLOUD act all the US based hyperscalars can't really offer compliant hosting.

pjc50 5mo ago

GDPR is a bureaucratic annoyance. Trump is an existential threat.

joe_mamba 5mo ago
Trump is not the core issue since he isn't a hereditary monarchical dictator. It's the US population that's the problem, since they voted to put him into power TWICE, which means that they can also do it again, and again, and again, for other candidates not named Trump and not always Republican, but who could be even more unhinged, so we need to do everything to decouple from them so that their election decisions will impact us less. No offence guys, but you do bare the responsibility of your democratic choices, as do we.
- pjc50 5mo ago
  Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. The real enduring toxic legacy is the packing of SCOTUS, sold to voters as a means of overturning Roe V Wade but in fact a massive enabler for corruption and gerrymandering. Those guys are there until they die or Democrats grow a spine, probably the former.
  - joe_mamba 5mo ago
    >Well, neither was Orban, and he caused huge problems. Any democratically elected leader can cause huge problems during their mandate, not just Orban or Trump. You have to wait for elections or their term limit to kick them out peacefully. The difference is whatever the person in the US president seat does, massively affects the whole world, not just the US, which is why we talk a lot more about the huge problems Trump caused rather than what problem the president of Romania, HUngary or Greece cause in their own countries. The issue remains the voting population to not elect people like Orban or Trump at the next elections. The EU can cancel or sway elections in Romania or Hungary to make sure the right candidate wins, but it can't sway US elections in their favor.
    - pjc50 5mo ago