4 ms·

There's one case, rural areas often have abundant energy sources (hydro, wind,etc) but few consumers, in Northern Sweden f.ex. a lot is produced but there's a l

There's one case, rural areas often have abundant energy sources (hydro, wind,etc) but few consumers, in Northern Sweden f.ex. a lot is produced but there's a lot of losses in transporting the energy south. Now, yes, as long as natural gas is cheap(inbetween US or Soviet wars) it'll probably be the core for hydrogen, however batteries won't help much in the north since the transmission rather than usage is the cap even with batteries so excess production could be redirected towards hydrogen production.

pfdietz 5mo ago
If solar continues to plummet in cost we may see distributed industry in rural areas, to take advantage of energy that is essentially stranded by transmission cost. Storage becomes even more important in this scenario.
- pjc50 5mo ago
  Well, unless all the planned datacentres get built, using more electricity than some small countries.
  - pfdietz 5mo ago
    The blockage of connecting those to the grid will encourage self-generation, which will mean putting them off in the boondocks where land is cheap. Taking that to the logical limit is where space data centers come from. I think we're going to see a repurposing of remote coal-fired plants with renewable stored heat. The Four Corners plant, perhaps? It's supposed to stop operating in 2031, I believe.
- voakbasda 5mo ago
  In the US, this will never happen due to NIMBY zoning laws.
  - toast0 5mo ago
    Most rural areas have pretty permissive zoning. But also, other than Texas, I don't hear about a lot of regional over production. There's pretty good interconnection within and between the two major grids.
    - pfdietz 5mo ago
      One reason you don't see overproduction is it's hard to get connected to grids. Local self-generation eliminates that roadblock. I think we're going to see increasing energy autarky in rural regions as solar gets cheaper. Assuming ultra low cost thermal storage becomes a thing, there's going to be a market for small externally heated engines to recover that heat as power. That (+ batteries) will enable complete off-grid operation with PV at small (maybe 100 kW) commercial scale and larger.
Animats 5mo ago
China has this in a big way. The big energy sources are mostly in northwest China, and the big loads are in the southeast. That's why China leads in million-volt DC power transmission.

pfdietz 5mo ago

If solar continues to plummet in cost we may see distributed industry in rural areas, to take advantage of energy that is essentially stranded by transmission cost. Storage becomes even more important in this scenario.

pjc50 5mo ago
Well, unless all the planned datacentres get built, using more electricity than some small countries.
- pfdietz 5mo ago
  The blockage of connecting those to the grid will encourage self-generation, which will mean putting them off in the boondocks where land is cheap. Taking that to the logical limit is where space data centers come from. I think we're going to see a repurposing of remote coal-fired plants with renewable stored heat. The Four Corners plant, perhaps? It's supposed to stop operating in 2031, I believe.
voakbasda 5mo ago
In the US, this will never happen due to NIMBY zoning laws.
- toast0 5mo ago
  Most rural areas have pretty permissive zoning. But also, other than Texas, I don't hear about a lot of regional over production. There's pretty good interconnection within and between the two major grids.
  - pfdietz 5mo ago
    One reason you don't see overproduction is it's hard to get connected to grids. Local self-generation eliminates that roadblock. I think we're going to see increasing energy autarky in rural regions as solar gets cheaper. Assuming ultra low cost thermal storage becomes a thing, there's going to be a market for small externally heated engines to recover that heat as power. That (+ batteries) will enable complete off-grid operation with PV at small (maybe 100 kW) commercial scale and larger.

Animats 5mo ago

China has this in a big way. The big energy sources are mostly in northwest China, and the big loads are in the southeast. That's why China leads in million-volt DC power transmission.