5 ms·

What would your family do if someone with a gun came and took away their land or their business?

mothballed 6mo ago
They have tried and failed against some people I'm aware of. Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable going into details of exactly how they failed, but I understand it was quite persuasive. Of course in the USA and Canada, it is illegal to defend property by force, except maybe in Texas. So you will probably just get your things taken and then pray the police help (they probably will not). In any case it's true that you'll probably have to defend your life and property if the government will not. Unfortunately I'm not seeing even western governments as effective at this, and to the extent it is effective, it's more a result of culture / personal self defense / non-governmental community efforts than anything related to the government. In this case having weak governance that at least doesn't have the judicial resources to prosecute people defending themselves can actually be a plus.
- userbinator 6mo ago
  Of course in the USA and Canada, it is illegal to defend property by force, except maybe in Texas. Texas is probably the classic example but many of the other states have similar laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
- triceratops 6mo ago
  Not gonna bother with this Gish gallop.
jrflowers 6mo ago
Hire a lawyer to get it back from the police.
- triceratops 6mo ago
  That's the most confusing answer I've ever read.
  - jrflowers 6mo ago
    How so?
    - triceratops 6mo ago
      Didn't think I needed to spell it out but here goes. If the police can take your things away at gunpoint, a lawyer isn't going to be much use. (Yes I'm aware of civil forfeiture. This discussion was about places outside the US).
      - jrflowers 6mo ago
        Where do you live that armed bandits robbing people of _land_ is an issue but municipal/police corruption is not? And also there is no legal recourse to contest having your land seized? Obviously it can’t be Canada, where property, including land and businesses, can be seized pending forfeiture being declared by the courts. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/services/goods-sale/managing-seized-property.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/service...
        triceratops 6mo ago
        That's exactly my point. mothballed waxed poetic about how "free" a land without government control is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48114935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48114935 I don't see that as a paradise. No matter where you live, someone will come along and take your shit by force. At least in a functioning state with rule of law there are rules about how much they can take, and you get other services in return.
        jrflowers 6mo ago
        Your point is that no matter where you are somebody with guns (police/bandits) can take your land and unrelatedly in some places there are also public services?

They have tried and failed against some people I'm aware of. Unfortunately I don't feel comfortable going into details of exactly how they failed, but I understand it was quite persuasive. Of course in the USA and Canada, it is illegal to defend property by force, except maybe in Texas. So you will probably just get your things taken and then pray the police help (they probably will not). In any case it's true that you'll probably have to defend your life and property if the government will not. Unfortunately I'm not seeing even western governments as effective at this, and to the extent it is effective, it's more a result of culture / personal self defense / non-governmental community efforts than anything related to the government. In this case having weak governance that at least doesn't have the judicial resources to prosecute people defending themselves can actually be a plus.

userbinator 6mo ago
Of course in the USA and Canada, it is illegal to defend property by force, except maybe in Texas. Texas is probably the classic example but many of the other states have similar laws: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
triceratops 6mo ago
Not gonna bother with this Gish gallop.

jrflowers 6mo ago

Hire a lawyer to get it back from the police.

triceratops 6mo ago
That's the most confusing answer I've ever read.
- jrflowers 6mo ago
  How so?
  - triceratops 6mo ago
    Didn't think I needed to spell it out but here goes. If the police can take your things away at gunpoint, a lawyer isn't going to be much use. (Yes I'm aware of civil forfeiture. This discussion was about places outside the US).
    - jrflowers 6mo ago
      Where do you live that armed bandits robbing people of _land_ is an issue but municipal/police corruption is not? And also there is no legal recourse to contest having your land seized? Obviously it can’t be Canada, where property, including land and businesses, can be seized pending forfeiture being declared by the courts. https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/services/goods-sale/managing-seized-property.html https://www.canada.ca/en/public-services-procurement/service...
      - triceratops 6mo ago
        That's exactly my point. mothballed waxed poetic about how "free" a land without government control is: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48114935 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48114935 I don't see that as a paradise. No matter where you live, someone will come along and take your shit by force. At least in a functioning state with rule of law there are rules about how much they can take, and you get other services in return.
        jrflowers 6mo ago
        Your point is that no matter where you are somebody with guns (police/bandits) can take your land and unrelatedly in some places there are also public services?