5 ms·

Exactly my experience. You describe it more diplomatically than I do hah. To me, young people just don't seem to know, or want to know, that information and kn

by gib444 6mo ago

Exactly my experience. You describe it more diplomatically than I do hah. To me, young people just don't seem to know, or want to know, that information and knowledge can be gained from a person. It's the arrogance of youth x100 They have a supercomputer in their pocket/on their desk, and an AI that knows 'everything'. I can't imagine what it's like being a teacher right now. How's your AI going to explain the office politics? The CTO's opinion on things? Talk about recent outages and learnings (details of which are not often on blogs)? They think all they need is knowledge and facts and none of history, politics, communication etc I think a lot of is that an AI or Google search won't challenge them, push them, disagree with them - and that's comforting to them, and more desirable than the learning that could happen

asdfman123 6mo ago
I like to play an online strategy game, openfront.io. The way to win is to take out someone who is gaining power before they get too powerful. It's just basic game theory, and you see it everywhere. However, it's so annoying in the workplace when your two options seem to come down to try to dominate or be dominated. Especially if you care about quality code and don't care for meetings. As far as I'm concerned, I think I have to make peace with the fact that if I don't play the game, I am going to be managed by people who don't know what they're doing. But neither option seems particularly good. Should I try to bury my ego and influence from below? Should I work harder and try to climb the corporate ladder? I'm still not sure.
- judahmeek 6mo ago
  I think it's odd that your company has a fairly decent promotion metric (those who seek to spread knowledge through docs & meetings get promoted) and you seem to want nothing to do with it while also complaining that your coworkers don't respect your opinion. I kind of get it as you have expressed that promotion is not your goal. However, organizational influence comes through promotion as your org & only those with influence at your org can change that. What do you think would be a better system, that decoupled promotions from influence & enabled you to provide your experienced opinion without getting into management?
  - asdfman123 5mo ago
    I actually know you're right, and am just being indulgent right now. I just hate it because I find meetings draining.
dyauspitr 6mo ago
I don’t think it’s the arrogance of youth. It’s just that this generation and honestly a big cohort of millennials are not used to gleaning information from people. A stunning number of people have been raised/educated solely by the internet. That’s the source for knowledge, not other people.
- Johanx64 6mo ago
  > A stunning number of people have been raised/educated solely by the internet. That’s the source for knowledge, not other people. On the internet you can learn from and sometimes interact with the best of the best, so the barrier of entry for what constitutes an "expert" is rised much higher.
  - drzaiusx11 6mo ago
    To be quite honest I learned exactly this way myself, however nowhere near recently by any stretch of imagination; I learned through Usenet, bulletin board systems, IRC, and a heavy dose of (bordering on obsession) reading any and all technical manuals I could get my hands on from the local used book store. I still vividly remember reading a z80 instruction set manual on a rainy day during summer vacation by a lake as a kid (maybe 14?)--writing my own assembly by hand in the margins for fun. TBH I probably still have that exact manual in storage somewhere. Had a green stripe down the front edge/binding iirc. Back then I easily met folks like myself out there on the net, including many kids younger and smarter than me. It was awesome. I do hope that some form of that 'net lives on in spirit somehow, given that the Internet I knew has largely fallen to corporate interests. Now that I have my own kids, it's been painful to watch them have such an utterly different experience than I did. Their Internet is based entirely on consumption and dark patterns designed to capture their attention, while providing nothing (to them) in return besides a dopamine addiction and body dismorphia.
  - vogelke 6mo ago
    I hope you're kidding. I've seen lots of 'Net people claim to be experts, and I wouldn't trust most of them to feed my cat.
  - 5mo ago

by gib444 6mo ago

asdfman123 6mo ago

I like to play an online strategy game, openfront.io. The way to win is to take out someone who is gaining power before they get too powerful. It's just basic game theory, and you see it everywhere. However, it's so annoying in the workplace when your two options seem to come down to try to dominate or be dominated. Especially if you care about quality code and don't care for meetings. As far as I'm concerned, I think I have to make peace with the fact that if I don't play the game, I am going to be managed by people who don't know what they're doing. But neither option seems particularly good. Should I try to bury my ego and influence from below? Should I work harder and try to climb the corporate ladder? I'm still not sure.

judahmeek 6mo ago
I think it's odd that your company has a fairly decent promotion metric (those who seek to spread knowledge through docs & meetings get promoted) and you seem to want nothing to do with it while also complaining that your coworkers don't respect your opinion. I kind of get it as you have expressed that promotion is not your goal. However, organizational influence comes through promotion as your org & only those with influence at your org can change that. What do you think would be a better system, that decoupled promotions from influence & enabled you to provide your experienced opinion without getting into management?
- asdfman123 5mo ago
  I actually know you're right, and am just being indulgent right now. I just hate it because I find meetings draining.

dyauspitr 6mo ago

I don’t think it’s the arrogance of youth. It’s just that this generation and honestly a big cohort of millennials are not used to gleaning information from people. A stunning number of people have been raised/educated solely by the internet. That’s the source for knowledge, not other people.

Johanx64 6mo ago
> A stunning number of people have been raised/educated solely by the internet. That’s the source for knowledge, not other people. On the internet you can learn from and sometimes interact with the best of the best, so the barrier of entry for what constitutes an "expert" is rised much higher.
- drzaiusx11 6mo ago
  To be quite honest I learned exactly this way myself, however nowhere near recently by any stretch of imagination; I learned through Usenet, bulletin board systems, IRC, and a heavy dose of (bordering on obsession) reading any and all technical manuals I could get my hands on from the local used book store. I still vividly remember reading a z80 instruction set manual on a rainy day during summer vacation by a lake as a kid (maybe 14?)--writing my own assembly by hand in the margins for fun. TBH I probably still have that exact manual in storage somewhere. Had a green stripe down the front edge/binding iirc. Back then I easily met folks like myself out there on the net, including many kids younger and smarter than me. It was awesome. I do hope that some form of that 'net lives on in spirit somehow, given that the Internet I knew has largely fallen to corporate interests. Now that I have my own kids, it's been painful to watch them have such an utterly different experience than I did. Their Internet is based entirely on consumption and dark patterns designed to capture their attention, while providing nothing (to them) in return besides a dopamine addiction and body dismorphia.
- vogelke 6mo ago
  I hope you're kidding. I've seen lots of 'Net people claim to be experts, and I wouldn't trust most of them to feed my cat.
- 5mo ago