5 ms·

> long history of more wars from both parties Which wars were started by Democratic presidents in the last half-century?

by runako 5mo ago

zulux 5mo ago
Vietnam.
- triceratops 5mo ago
  That was more than a half-century ago.
- KptMarchewa 5mo ago
  While Kennedy and then Johnson escalated US support to South Vietnam significantly, Eisenhower started it.
  - triceratops 5mo ago
    And Nixon prolonged it in order to win an election. [1] Regular people would call that treason. 1. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vie...
  - runako 5mo ago
    This point came up in a discussion of whether the Iran war is the first US war to be started and lost by the exact same team. Vietnam was floated, but they had a few shift changes before defeat was clear.
ryeats 5mo ago
Syria, Libya, Kosovo probably more I am just naming the ones off the top of my head.
- runako 5mo ago
  "started by" here was used to indicate that there was not already a shooting war in progress.
  - parineum 5mo ago
    If you want to get technical, the US hasn't been involved in a war since WW2. See how annoying that is? No more wars means stop putting Americans at risk to kill foreigners.
    - runako 5mo ago
      If you're going to get technical, you need to pick apart the AUMF for Iraq. In any case, I personally don't think the US interventions in Bosnia or Haiti rose to the level of the colloquial understanding of "no more wars." This is to the extent that the public of 2024 was even broadly aware of those interventions. Major point is this: in the last 50 years, every GOP president has started a trillion-dollar boondoggle in the Middle East that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths or more (count is still running in Iran, which the President credibly threatens to nuke every other week). Democratic presidents have initiated e.g. peacekeeping missions or the like with definite endpoints and missions. "Both sides" elides all of this as if they are the remotely equivalent. (I'm on record suggesting that the US military should be reduced to a footprint necessary to defend only the US states and not foreign interests. 75%+ cuts in budget as a start. 11 carrier battle groups to ~4, two per coast. etc.)
      - parineum 5mo ago
        > Democratic presidents have initiated e.g. peacekeeping missions or the like with definite endpoints and missions. You can play word games all you want, this is what people care about: https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYear...
        runako 5mo ago
opo 5mo ago
Depends on what you call a “war” since the last time the US declared war was in WW II.. In terms of military operations, a partial list would probably include: Democrat Presidents: Bosnia, Haiti, Iran, Kosovo, Libya, Niger, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen. Republican Presidents: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Grenada, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Panama, Somalia, Syria, and Venezuela. It is outside the 50 year timeframe, but go back another 10 years and you have Viet Nam which caused more deaths than all the rest combined.
- rurp 5mo ago
  Seems balanced when you put them in a simple list like that, so it might not be obvious that the republican started wars cost many, many orders of magnitude more lives and treasure than the tiny actions attributed to dems.
- runako 5mo ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48109360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48109360 > go back another 10 years and you have Viet Nam Eisenhower was a Republican when he committed forces to Vietnam.
  - opo 5mo ago
    If sending military advisors to a country is starting a war, the list of wars started by each President will get MUCH larger. (For some reason most people associate the Vietnam war with the President who deliberately lied to congress to get a use of force authorization and then literally sent over half a million troops into war.)

> long history of more wars from both parties Which wars were started by Democratic presidents in the last half-century?

by runako 5mo ago

> long history of more wars from both parties Which wars were started by Democratic presidents in the last half-century?

zulux 5mo ago

Vietnam.

triceratops 5mo ago
That was more than a half-century ago.
KptMarchewa 5mo ago
While Kennedy and then Johnson escalated US support to South Vietnam significantly, Eisenhower started it.
- triceratops 5mo ago
  And Nixon prolonged it in order to win an election. [1] Regular people would call that treason. 1. https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vie...
- runako 5mo ago
  This point came up in a discussion of whether the Iran war is the first US war to be started and lost by the exact same team. Vietnam was floated, but they had a few shift changes before defeat was clear.

ryeats 5mo ago

Syria, Libya, Kosovo probably more I am just naming the ones off the top of my head.

runako 5mo ago
"started by" here was used to indicate that there was not already a shooting war in progress.
- parineum 5mo ago
  If you want to get technical, the US hasn't been involved in a war since WW2. See how annoying that is? No more wars means stop putting Americans at risk to kill foreigners.
  - runako 5mo ago
    If you're going to get technical, you need to pick apart the AUMF for Iraq. In any case, I personally don't think the US interventions in Bosnia or Haiti rose to the level of the colloquial understanding of "no more wars." This is to the extent that the public of 2024 was even broadly aware of those interventions. Major point is this: in the last 50 years, every GOP president has started a trillion-dollar boondoggle in the Middle East that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths or more (count is still running in Iran, which the President credibly threatens to nuke every other week). Democratic presidents have initiated e.g. peacekeeping missions or the like with definite endpoints and missions. "Both sides" elides all of this as if they are the remotely equivalent. (I'm on record suggesting that the US military should be reduced to a footprint necessary to defend only the US states and not foreign interests. 75%+ cuts in budget as a start. 11 carrier battle groups to ~4, two per coast. etc.)
    - parineum 5mo ago
      > Democratic presidents have initiated e.g. peacekeeping missions or the like with definite endpoints and missions. You can play word games all you want, this is what people care about: https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYearManner https://dcas.dmdc.osd.mil/dcas/app/summaryData/deaths/byYear...
      - runako 5mo ago

opo 5mo ago

Depends on what you call a “war” since the last time the US declared war was in WW II.. In terms of military operations, a partial list would probably include: Democrat Presidents: Bosnia, Haiti, Iran, Kosovo, Libya, Niger, Somalia, Syria, and Yemen. Republican Presidents: Afghanistan, Cambodia, Grenada, Iran, Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Panama, Somalia, Syria, and Venezuela. It is outside the 50 year timeframe, but go back another 10 years and you have Viet Nam which caused more deaths than all the rest combined.

rurp 5mo ago
Seems balanced when you put them in a simple list like that, so it might not be obvious that the republican started wars cost many, many orders of magnitude more lives and treasure than the tiny actions attributed to dems.
runako 5mo ago
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48109360 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48109360 > go back another 10 years and you have Viet Nam Eisenhower was a Republican when he committed forces to Vietnam.
- opo 5mo ago
  If sending military advisors to a country is starting a war, the list of wars started by each President will get MUCH larger. (For some reason most people associate the Vietnam war with the President who deliberately lied to congress to get a use of force authorization and then literally sent over half a million troops into war.)