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Forget about the old stuff; just use .NET 10. It's really, really good now. DX is fantastic. Yes, the hot-reload will probably never match that of interprete

Forget about the old stuff; just use .NET 10. It's really, really good now. DX is fantastic. Yes, the hot-reload will probably never match that of interpreted languages, but for a compiled language, it is good. File-based apps are easy to get started with: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/fundamentals/tutorials/file-based-programs https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/csharp/fundamentals... EF is solid and proven. Easy, low-lift type safety end-to-end from DB up with very good perf. Tooling is dead simple and consistent; `dotnet build`, `dotnet test`, `dotnet run`, `dotnet ef database update`, `dotnet ef migrations add`, `dotnet tool restore`. No mix of build tools and toolchains.

pier25 5mo ago
Never tried .NET 10 but hot-reload was garbage with .NET 9 and 8. It failed very often and you had to manually restart the dev process. Even when it worked, it was no where as fast as eg using Bun with TS. Also Minimal APIs didn't have feature parity vs MVC even 4 years after release which is quite frankly insane. I hear in .NET 10 they've finally added some validation. Not sure how it compares to something like FluentValidation which still is one of the most downloaded nuget packages.
- CharlieDigital 5mo ago
  > It failed very often and you had to manually restart the dev process. Even when it worked, it was no where as fast as eg using Bun with TS Really depends on what you're doing. For run of the mill APIs, it works pretty flawlessly with `--non-interactive` and just auto-restarts when it needs to, hot reloads when it can (again, I'm not comparing this to interpreted languages and runtimes; the constraints are just different). I have a clip of this in action with .NET 9 generating OpenAPI contracts and TS bindings at the top of this README: https://github.com/CharlieDigital/dn9-openapi-codegen/blob/main/README.md https://github.com/CharlieDigital/dn9-openapi-codegen/blob/m... > Also Minimal APIs didn't have feature parity vs MVC even 4 years after release which is quite frankly insane Why does it need to? That's like saying express should have feature parity with Nest.js; they have different use cases in my view :shrug:
  - pier25 5mo ago
    I had to run it with --no-hot-reload to get a consistent behavior. > That's like saying express should have feature parity with Nest.js I disagree but, objectively, validation is a fundamental part of any web app or API. They shipped Minimal APIs in .NET 6 without validation. The functionality was already there for MVC so it's not like they had to build it from scratch. And yet, they didn't add it until .NET 10.
    - CharlieDigital 5mo ago
      I just find it very weird that there are two standards here. Express is ostensibly the analog of minimal APIs and ships with no validation. You pick your validation library and build on top of it. A less complete, less opinionated, bare-bones stack on which you build with explicit stack choices. Nest.js is ostensibly the analog of controller APIs and ships with validation. A more complete, more opinionated approach where you lean in to stack defaults. This makes total sense in the Node.js world; I don't see why controller and minimal have to have feature parity when they have different use cases and, like Express, it's possible to pull down third party validation libraries. Controller API is more opinionated like Nest.js while minimal is intentionally less opinionated like Express.

pier25 5mo ago

Never tried .NET 10 but hot-reload was garbage with .NET 9 and 8. It failed very often and you had to manually restart the dev process. Even when it worked, it was no where as fast as eg using Bun with TS. Also Minimal APIs didn't have feature parity vs MVC even 4 years after release which is quite frankly insane. I hear in .NET 10 they've finally added some validation. Not sure how it compares to something like FluentValidation which still is one of the most downloaded nuget packages.

CharlieDigital 5mo ago
> It failed very often and you had to manually restart the dev process. Even when it worked, it was no where as fast as eg using Bun with TS Really depends on what you're doing. For run of the mill APIs, it works pretty flawlessly with `--non-interactive` and just auto-restarts when it needs to, hot reloads when it can (again, I'm not comparing this to interpreted languages and runtimes; the constraints are just different). I have a clip of this in action with .NET 9 generating OpenAPI contracts and TS bindings at the top of this README: https://github.com/CharlieDigital/dn9-openapi-codegen/blob/main/README.md https://github.com/CharlieDigital/dn9-openapi-codegen/blob/m... > Also Minimal APIs didn't have feature parity vs MVC even 4 years after release which is quite frankly insane Why does it need to? That's like saying express should have feature parity with Nest.js; they have different use cases in my view :shrug:
- pier25 5mo ago
  I had to run it with --no-hot-reload to get a consistent behavior. > That's like saying express should have feature parity with Nest.js I disagree but, objectively, validation is a fundamental part of any web app or API. They shipped Minimal APIs in .NET 6 without validation. The functionality was already there for MVC so it's not like they had to build it from scratch. And yet, they didn't add it until .NET 10.
  - CharlieDigital 5mo ago
    I just find it very weird that there are two standards here. Express is ostensibly the analog of minimal APIs and ships with no validation. You pick your validation library and build on top of it. A less complete, less opinionated, bare-bones stack on which you build with explicit stack choices. Nest.js is ostensibly the analog of controller APIs and ships with validation. A more complete, more opinionated approach where you lean in to stack defaults. This makes total sense in the Node.js world; I don't see why controller and minimal have to have feature parity when they have different use cases and, like Express, it's possible to pull down third party validation libraries. Controller API is more opinionated like Nest.js while minimal is intentionally less opinionated like Express.