30 ms·
Extremely Low Frequencies
- andai 5mo agoFantastic article. I found a slightly clearer diagram of the Cutler array: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VLF_Transmitter_Cutler#Antenna
- thrownthatway 5mo agoI didn’t know there was one of these in Australia, the Naval Communication Station Harold E. Holt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Communication_Station_Harold_E._Holt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Communication_Station_Ha...
- mattkrause 5mo agoThe man who mysteriously disappeared whilst swimming has a Naval Communications station and a pool complex named after him?! Amazing!
- matthewsinclair 5mo agoAs an Aussie, it’s always amused me that we managed to name a public swimming pool after a Prime Minister who (at least as the official story goes) died whilst swimming.
- Aurornis 5mo ago> Therefore, the antenna cables are connected to a deicing system. When in use, it heats the wires by running a 60 Hz electric current through them. The power required to deice one array within a reasonable time is 3 MW or more – considerably higher than the transmitter output power. I love that they de-ice the antenna array by plugging it into the grid and sending 3 megawatts into the wires
- Lapsa 5mo ago"In 1975, Dr. Joseph Sharp proved that correct modulation of microwave energy can result in wireless and receiverless transmission of audible speech."
- Tuna-Fish 5mo agoThat's entire unrelated to ELF. The frequencies used by Sharp were in the VHF to UHF bands, and the effect just plain doesn't work at the rock bottom of the spectrum used by ELF and VLF. This highlights a huge problem that ELF faced: Most people don't understand this stuff at all, and cannot tell the difference. On the other hand, the researchers and Navy were always very reluctant to go into the specifics of the technology, for military secrecy concerns. Beyond the sensible secret keeping, this always results in a much larger vague area where people don't want to talk even though nothing serious would be leaked because the laws are strict and figuring out the exact limits of what's classified is itself fraught. So if on the other side you got people who are chaining together all the even vaguely EMF-related news and discoveries, and associating it all with a huge military secret project that no-one wants to talk about, and on the other side you got a bunch of people who actually know what's going on but are unwilling to give straight answers to even relatively simple questions because they are scared of accidentally divulging some key details that are classified, lots of people drew the frankly reasonable conclusion that there is something rotten here. To put it simply, the kind of massive transmitters used by ELF and VLF projects would not be useful for working in the bands where the Frey effect works. The most efficient antennas are half- or quarter-wavelength, which for the Frey effect would be somewhere around 10-20cm (4-8 inches).
- Tuna-Fish 5mo agoAlso, ironically for the opposition 5th gen communications networks received, 4th gen stuff operates largely in the relevant bands, but 5th gen moves to higher frequencies. Both of those of course use a way too high frequency signal for it to be meaningfully received by the Frey effect.
- Lapsa 5mo agoand therefore I'm one of the most people. I do realize ELF & VLF ain't microwaves but I think it is somewhat related compared to other articles. point is - someone is blasting constant speech straight to heads of population and nobody is willing to do anything about it. it's 21st century yet the world we live in has gone back to Dachau methods.
- jareklupinski 5mo ago> In the summer of 1917, he was arranging various types of coil antennas at a receiver test site on the Chesapeake Bay when he accidentally dropped one of the antennas into the water. Strangely enough, the radio receiver connected to the antenna continued to provide good reception even as it sank into the bay. is discovery ever intentional :)
- gpderetta 5mo ago"The Most Exciting Phrase in Science Is Not ‘Eureka!’ But ‘That’s Funny’" (often attributed to Isaac Asimov, but origin is uncertain)
- madcaptenor 5mo agohttps://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/02/eureka-funny/ https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/03/02/eureka-funny/ (in short, people have found the "Eureka" part in Asimov but not the "that's funny" part)
- rramadass 5mo agoMore info; 1) Extremely low frequency - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extremely_low_frequency 2) Communication with Submarines - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communication_with_submarines An important addendum is the subject of "Underwater Acoustic Communication" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustic_communication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_acoustic_communicat... RF Science is fascinating. Now might be a good time to ask; Does anybody have any recommendations on scientific books/papers/articles on the effects of RF spectrum (all frequencies) on Human Biology and Physiology? There is a lot of nonsense/hysteria out there but i would like to know the actual experimental evidence and science.
- relaxing 5mo agoThe DOD terms are RADHAZ and HERP (Hazards of EM Radiation to Personnel.) There is plenty of literature out there on what frequencies turn you into a microwave oven for cooking your insides, based on your length as a living antenna.
- rramadass 5mo agoAny specific ones you would care to recommend? PS: I found Electromagnetic Fields of Wireless Communications: Biological and Health Effects edited by Dimitris Panagopoulos.
- nhecker 5mo agoThe ARRL has some good writing on RF exposure. Basically everything I've read comes down to treating radiated RF energy as thermal risk. So it's not magic stuff that will give you cancer or cause your cells to turn inside out or something, it's just going to raise the temperature of whatever region of your body the signal is going to interact with. Could be 0.003 degrees C, could be 30 degrees C -- all that depends on the energy involved. But that's at HF frequencies and above, not this VLF stuff which is somewhat of a different beast. Risks there are probably similar to AC mains power distribution, I would guess: touch it and get a nasty shock, don't touch it and you're fine.
- whall6 5mo agoI think my Grandpa worked on the mentioned classified experiments in the late 1950s and throughout the 1960s. He was a Naval Academy graduate with a degree in electrical engineering and spent several years on submarines. He then spent several years working at the Pentagon in late 50s and throughout the 60s (my mother was born in Bethesda in 72). He took those secrets to his grave. I could never get it out of him what he did that was classified. Although I did find several books and research papers in his basement about sonar and radio communications… Anyways, great article that gave me a bit more insight into what my Grandpa might have been up to.
- thomasjudge 5mo agoELF is used as a plot tool in the Nelson DeMille novel "Wild Fire"
- boguscoder 5mo agoOne of those topics you randomly step into and cant stop reading. Maybe someone could recommend a book that goes along these lines?
- kraussvonespy 5mo agocomputer.rip has dozens of rabbit hole articles that seem to be tied together in an "old tech / weird tech" bundle. I'd love to find a book on similar subjects too.
- entrep 5mo agoFor someone interested in this topic and happens to pass by, I can highly recommend a visit to Grimeton Radio Station[1], Sweden, which is still operational. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_Radio_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimeton_Radio_Station
- buildsjets 5mo agoThe Jim Creek VLF station, about an hour north of Seattle, briefly mentioned in the article, is still in operation. I would have to assume that this building is pre-targeted by many megatons of advanced weapon systems. https://maps.app.goo.gl/w9Sr4YkFbtfKf2Fh6 https://maps.app.goo.gl/w9Sr4YkFbtfKf2Fh6 https://www.navy-radio.com/commsta/jimcreek.htm https://www.navy-radio.com/commsta/jimcreek.htm https://www.cascadepbs.org/culture/2022/07/jim-creek-harbors-endangered-wildlife-and-navy-secrets/ https://www.cascadepbs.org/culture/2022/07/jim-creek-harbors... https://www.historylink.org/file/20778 https://www.historylink.org/file/20778
- superxpro12 5mo agothese days its probably about a hundred drones hidden in a shack somewhere closeby
- buildsjets 5mo agoYou are likely correct. That or in an abandoned looking tractor-trailer on one of the many rural properties surrounding the facility.
- yabones 5mo agoIt's crazy that they're using radio frequencies that are within the range of human hearing... Obviously sound and RF are different things, but it puts into perspective how a "high" sound is a very "low" frequency ;)
- magicalhippo 5mo agoThe extreme lower edge could be said to fall around 7 Hz, where the wavelength of a radio signal matches the circumference of the earth. Those are rookie numbers. Ok so not the same, but headline made me think of NANOGrav first, which uses minute shifts in pulsar timings to detect gravitational waves in the nano-Hz range[1]. The submission was about subs rather, and quite interesting as such. The ELF system was found to cause problems ranging from flickering light bulbs to phantom telephone ringing, and the Navy installed additional grounding and filtering on public utilities throughout the area at its own expense—even reimbursing the utilities for administrative costs related to customer complaints. Yea that surely helped drive some ghost stories and paranoid delusions. [1]: https://arxiv.org/abs/2306.16218 https://arxiv.org/abs/2306.16218 (figure 9)
- Ken_At_EM 5mo agoWe (as an industry) have repurposed this technology for what's called Electromagnetic Measurement While Drilling telemetry. We break modern drill strings with a "gap sub", which is basically just a piece of iron with a ceramic insulated thread, into a "crappy dipole" which then if we impart 2-30W of power through roughly a Class D amp we can generate a signal that goes through most formations of the earth to the surface from over 5 miles underground from the transmitting source. Transmit frequencies are generally 2-10hz, sometimes pushing 32+hz. It's a fascinating use of the tech. If building in this industry sounds awesome to you, feel free to drop me a line. ken _at_ erdosmiller _dot_ com.
- HDBaseT 5mo ago[flagged]
- pxmpxm 5mo agohttps://www.samhsa.gov/find-support/how-to-pay-for-treatment/free-or-low-cost-treatment https://www.samhsa.gov/find-support/how-to-pay-for-treatment... Schizophrenia is covered under -caid.
- tomhow 5mo agoWe detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48106956 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48106956 and marked it off topic.