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Recent and related comment: "I can’t prove it, but it feels like the world recently decided that spamming/scamming is acceptable..." https://news.ycombinator.

by xnx 6mo ago

Recent and related comment: "I can’t prove it, but it feels like the world recently decided that spamming/scamming is acceptable..." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48094961 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48094961

rootusrootus 6mo ago
100% a demonstration that who we elect as a leader absolutely does set the tone for the rest of the country. I have lived through two elections of Donald Trump and both times the shift in what kinds of behavior were socially acceptable was palpable within hours. Like a lot of people suddenly decided they could come out and be their true self, it just turned out that it was gleefully ugly and hateful.
- bdangubic 6mo ago
  This is better though, no (as ugly as it is)? At least we now know what this Country actually is and who are its citizens… vs. leaving in some “we are better than this…” fantasy
  - wicharek 6mo ago
    Disagree. If one behaves in a decent way, does it matter what this person “really is” and why they behave like that? Is it societal norms? Is it a fear of punishment? Is it because Jesus tells them to? Or are they genuinely a good person? Who can tell and why does that matter. The net outcome - they behave in a decent way.
TheAlchemist 6mo ago
It seems to me that it feels that the world, or at least the US, decided that far far worse things are acceptable too. Not easy to be a parent and explain to kids that no, this is not how the world should be run. How do we expect them to have any confidence in the institutions and the rule of law ?
- atmavatar 6mo ago
  > How do we expect them to have any confidence in the institutions and the rule of law ? They shouldn't. The reality is that the rich and powerful have never been particularly beholden to the law. For a while, there was a lot of energy spent maintaining the illusion that we had rule of law, and I don't doubt there are some who believed it was an ideal to strive for that we'd get closer and closer to over time, but Trump and his administration stopped pretending.
  - mothballed 6mo ago
    I taught my kids the rule of law and what's right and wrong or desirable are totally separate concepts. The law itself only tells you what's proscribed and potential penalties, all of which have to be analyzed in the light of how or who will actually bother to enforce it and the incentives of the various parties enforcing it. Unfortunately the police come to public schools and try to do their brainwashing very early before you have the opportunity to even address it. So unless you address this issue at a very young age they likely won't question it again until near college age.
    - atmavatar 6mo ago
      > I taught my kids the rule of law and what's right and wrong or desirable are totally separate concepts. You should be careful to distinguish "rule of law" from the law itself. Rule of law is merely the principle that laws should be applied equally to all. It shouldn't matter if you're rich or poor, man or woman, a member of the majority or minority race, famous or obscure, politically well-connected or not, etc. This is an inherently just principle, but it's also extremely difficult (impossible?) to live up to 100%. On the other hand, you're correct that individual laws can be just or unjust, moral or immoral. We have plenty of historical examples of unjust laws (e.g., a recent and hopefully unquestionable example in living memory is segregation), and it's our duty to oppose them through voting, contacting representatives, protests, and perhaps even civil disobedience.
      - leereeves 6mo ago
TitaRusell 6mo ago
Trump is a throwback to the 19th century when US politicians had to appeal to illiterate yahoos who often couldn't even speak English. Compulsory education was supposed to usher in a new age but obviously that didn't last.

by xnx 6mo ago

rootusrootus 6mo ago

100% a demonstration that who we elect as a leader absolutely does set the tone for the rest of the country. I have lived through two elections of Donald Trump and both times the shift in what kinds of behavior were socially acceptable was palpable within hours. Like a lot of people suddenly decided they could come out and be their true self, it just turned out that it was gleefully ugly and hateful.

bdangubic 6mo ago
This is better though, no (as ugly as it is)? At least we now know what this Country actually is and who are its citizens… vs. leaving in some “we are better than this…” fantasy
- wicharek 6mo ago
  Disagree. If one behaves in a decent way, does it matter what this person “really is” and why they behave like that? Is it societal norms? Is it a fear of punishment? Is it because Jesus tells them to? Or are they genuinely a good person? Who can tell and why does that matter. The net outcome - they behave in a decent way.

TheAlchemist 6mo ago

It seems to me that it feels that the world, or at least the US, decided that far far worse things are acceptable too. Not easy to be a parent and explain to kids that no, this is not how the world should be run. How do we expect them to have any confidence in the institutions and the rule of law ?

atmavatar 6mo ago
> How do we expect them to have any confidence in the institutions and the rule of law ? They shouldn't. The reality is that the rich and powerful have never been particularly beholden to the law. For a while, there was a lot of energy spent maintaining the illusion that we had rule of law, and I don't doubt there are some who believed it was an ideal to strive for that we'd get closer and closer to over time, but Trump and his administration stopped pretending.
- mothballed 6mo ago
  I taught my kids the rule of law and what's right and wrong or desirable are totally separate concepts. The law itself only tells you what's proscribed and potential penalties, all of which have to be analyzed in the light of how or who will actually bother to enforce it and the incentives of the various parties enforcing it. Unfortunately the police come to public schools and try to do their brainwashing very early before you have the opportunity to even address it. So unless you address this issue at a very young age they likely won't question it again until near college age.
  - atmavatar 6mo ago
    > I taught my kids the rule of law and what's right and wrong or desirable are totally separate concepts. You should be careful to distinguish "rule of law" from the law itself. Rule of law is merely the principle that laws should be applied equally to all. It shouldn't matter if you're rich or poor, man or woman, a member of the majority or minority race, famous or obscure, politically well-connected or not, etc. This is an inherently just principle, but it's also extremely difficult (impossible?) to live up to 100%. On the other hand, you're correct that individual laws can be just or unjust, moral or immoral. We have plenty of historical examples of unjust laws (e.g., a recent and hopefully unquestionable example in living memory is segregation), and it's our duty to oppose them through voting, contacting representatives, protests, and perhaps even civil disobedience.
    - leereeves 6mo ago

TitaRusell 6mo ago

Trump is a throwback to the 19th century when US politicians had to appeal to illiterate yahoos who often couldn't even speak English. Compulsory education was supposed to usher in a new age but obviously that didn't last.