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Sorry, No Calls
- chollida1 14y agoI'm surprised at the number of people here who say that email is a more effective form of communication. To me I've seen way too many email chains deteriorate to the point where someone finally steps up and says let's have a call to hash this out. Conversely I've never once been on a call where someone has said, you know what? This would be solved quicker and better via email. If I need something done quickly then I always call. Email can be put off way too easily.
- caw 14y agoI agree with everything said here. The important thing is to set time limits for pre-planned phone calls. If it's an impromptu call and you don't have much time, make sure you stay on topic. The other thing I've never seen happen in a business email is gossip. Due to natural shifts in the conversation, you learn things that may not be mentioned in an email. There are things people won't put down in an email because of whatever reason (it's in writing, could be perceived as off-topic), that they'll bring up suddenly if they think of it while talking. Some of that is important information to know.
- dwj 14y agoActually, I do that all the time (tell people it will be easier to do this via email). Most of my calls are support, and it's generally MUCH quicker and more efficient doing it via email than over the phone. I actually removed the phone number from our website 6 months ago and we just have email sales/support now. If someone prefers to talk on the phone (or in the rare case where it would be more efficient to do a phone call), I just call them back. The problem is that I'm thinking we might be losing some customers who prefer to see a phone number they can call, so I'm considering putting our phone number back on the website. I just wish I could educate people to consider sending a 30 second email versus having a 30 minute phone call to sort out problems...
- sivers 14y agoThe article and the Oatmeal comic seem to apply to people you don't like much - people you don't really want to talk with by any means. I also bristle at business calls, or calls from anyone I don't adore. But because I'm an introvert, I love the phone for some real good undistracted one-on-one conversation with dear friends. I prefer phone to hanging out in-person. I have a social window of about an hour where I'm into it, then my tolerance fades fast. When you're on the phone, an hour is a good long conversation. But in-person, an hour is so short, it rarely feels worth the travel time. My best friends are in London, Minnesota, Singapore, LA, SF, Portland, NYC, Texas, Taiwan, and New Zealand. (I move around a lot. And many of my friends are touring musicians.) Phone is the only way we keep in touch. The best, deepest, most life-changing conversations I've had are by phone. I think it's because I'm an introvert, and like low-stimulation environments, that the phone keeps everything focused on the conversation itself.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- slosh 14y agosounds a lot like tim ferris
- dshah 14y agoReally? I had no idea Tim was an introvert. For some reason, he comes off as a complete extrovert.
- patio11 14y agoI think the policy is similar but the reasoning is different. His is, IIRC, closer to "phone calls are not the most efficient use of my time; I prioritize efficiency very highly; you will deal." It is similar to e.g. a standing policy to tell employees "If you require any decision from me regarding an issue where you could resolve the issue yourself for under $100, resolve the issue and add it to a spreadsheet. I will periodically have someone review that spreadsheet. Rationale: These issues do not require my input to be resolved to the benefit of the business, some more pressing issues do, accordingly, we optimize me out of this process."
- gavinjoyce 14y agoI do everything that I can to avoid phone calls. As a developer, the interruption to flow is the biggest deal for me.
- nhangen 14y agoMy company actually uses this to determine which clients we work with. If the first email we get is a call request, then we politely decline to work with them. In our experience, having a 'quick chat' rarely if ever leads to business. Most people know what they want already and don't need a call to confirm and/or waste each other's time.
- dshah 14y agoI love that idea. As an occasional angel investor, I actually use a variation of that filter as well. Out of politeness, entrepreneurs will offer to have a call with me to talk me through their business. I tell them no call is necessary, they have better things to do with their time. If someone insists on a phone call without at least trying to see if we can accomplish what's needed over email, it's a no go for me. Thankfully, just about every early-stage entrepreneur I've encountered has no issues with this approach. They prefer it.
- recursive 14y agoI think that learning to talk to humans is a valuable skill.
- retube 14y agoand an enriching one too.
- zalew 14y agogive me your number so we can talk about it.
- recursive 14y agoI emailed you.
- iomike 14y agoI don't have time to talk, I'd much rather spend my time productively than taking a call. It slows me down, down down,
- CodeMage 14y agoSo is the ability to discuss things instead of reducing them to a narrow and shallow interpretation that you can diss with a one-liner.
- jon_kuperman 14y agoI can't believe how much that post resonated with me. Strangely though, I consider myself at least somewhat an extrovert; I just can't seem to master phone call etiquette.
- gm 14y agoIMO, saying "I do not communicate that way, sorry" on an initial contact request is a little douchebaggy (key sentence is "on an initial contact"). I much rather prefer: "I'll make time for a quick phone call, but I only have X minutes for it." (5 minutes? Does not have to be a long time). Stick with the time limit. The first thing to say in the phone call is "This may be the last phone call we have because [...]". That's better than coming off as some eccentric whose most memorable quality is that he does not do phone calls. As opposed to whatever you want the most-remembered thing about you is. Just an opinion.
- dshah 14y agoI'm the author of the article. I prefer the term "schmucky" (instead of "douchebaggy"). In theory, I think you're right. In practice, just the thought of trying to do what you are suggesting sounds awfully unpleasant -- even more unpleasant than actually taking the call.
- gm 14y agoYeah, could not find a better term at the time, sorry... But yeah, It's all subjective. I think though, that setting a time limit as the first thing in the call is far better than saying "I must go in two minutes" in the middle of a call. At least the other party knows their time is limited. But like I said, it's subjective and you certainly have a right to handle it as you wish :-)
- nthitz 14y agoInteresting discussion in that site's comments over whether or not the author's use of The Oatmeal's comic images are fair use or not.
- dshah 14y agoIndeed, I'm feeling badly about it. (I'm the author of the article) Have reached out to Matt at The Oatmeal offering to donate $500 to his favorite charity -- but I'm open to do doing whatever he thinks is right. Although it doesn't excuse it -- I did link to the original comic, mentioned Matt and The Oatmeal by name, and linked EVERY individual image back to the original comic. I didn't mean to not give credit for the original work.
- scotty79 14y agoI think you shouldn't beat yourself up about it. IMHO you did everything right and some people are just too sensitive. What's your favorite culture good for if you can't cite it as you make a point. People tend to get picky over everything when they strongly disagree with you.
- handelaar 14y agoThat's good (really) but I don't think you get to determine where your $500 offer goes. 'The Matt's Wallet Foundation' has every right to every cent.
- danso 14y agoIt's definitely not fair use. Fair use would be allowed if the OP were discussing the content of the images, not appropriating them to make a rhetorical point.
- msluyter 14y agoA little tangential, but it's interesting the extent to which phone communication has dropped in my life. The phone on my office desk sits unused in the corner, covered with dust. For personal calls, I'm down to a perhaps 2-3 a week, total; for everything else, text/email/fb is more convenient. Now, I mostly view voice calls as an annoyance and I sympathize with the article.
- Puer 14y agoAs a writer I also prefer to communicate by email. I used to be very socially awkward and introverted (and still am), but knowing how to communicate in a wide variety of situations, whether it be by text, email, phone or in person is an extremely important skill to learn, especially if you're in a field like software development or engineering. 1) I can relate to this first point, but at the same time it isn't like it's impossible to have long or in-depth conversations on the phone. If you find phone calls at random times distracting just set a time and date, or tell them to call you back later. Also, in this day and age phones that support voicemail are everywhere; if they leave you a message you can think of a reply for a couple of hours and then call them back when you're ready. 2) Things like small talk don't have to be awkward. I'll agree that most small talk feels "fake," but that's because it's used to assess your mood. You don't have to pretend to be interested in the weather on Saturday or that baseball game last night. Making small talk is a difficult skill to learn, but again, you don't actually have to care or devote and thought to it. Asking how your day has been going is just common courtesy. I'm not going to address the rest of his points as they're personal problems, but if you limit yourself to one form of communication you're going to limit yourself in a bunch of other ways, too.
- zalew 14y agoAside from it being the most counter-productive form of communication ever, I see it as a measure of covering one's inability/unwillingness to explicitely put up in writing what they really want to say. Why can't you take 15minutes to think over and write your request? Why both of us have to waste an hour to talk over stuff that can be written in 15mins and read in 5?
- Puer 14y ago> Aside from it being the most counter-productive form of communication ever That's a ridiculous statement. Some people can better articulate their thoughts if they speak it out loud, and some people can better articulate their thoughts if they write them out. Calling it an "inability" and "unwillingness" is just inconsiderate and stupid.
- zalew 14y agooh, wow. If someone wants you to write him an email and you call him instead beacuse you feel like it, it's just inconsiderate and stupid.
- danso 14y agoThe GP is right, though...writing and talking use different parts of the brain. In the context of the discussion, if a prospective investor wants to do something by phone, even if by all logic, email is more efficient, it may not just be the result of an old fashioned habit.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- scotty79 14y agoGolden rule. He who has the gold makes the rules. If I want something from you I'll buy you a dinner and stare you deeply in the eyes if you prefer that. But if you want something from me, please write an email.
- napoleond 14y agoI strongly prefer conducting most of my professional communications over email for most of the reasons listed. Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not work that way--particularly in the realm of B2B sales. I respect Dharmesh enormously. I am nowhere near his level of anything, and no one has any reason to listen to me, but I still have to say it: if you want to make money running your own business and can't afford to hire a salesperson, unless you have a uniquely geeky clientelle you need to learn to talk on the phone. Furthermore, learn to enjoy it. It's very doable, even for introverts like us. (FWIW, I strongly suspect that Dharmesh is very good at talking on the phone, even if he hates it, both because I've seen his BoS videos and because it is extremely rare for people to succeed in the way he has without being excellent verbal communicators. He'd be better at it if he got past his mental block, but he doesn't need to because he has hired an excellent sales team.)
- mamoswined 14y ago* Unfortunately, the rest of the world does not work that way--particularly in the realm of B2B sales.* Also "disruptive" startups that enter other realms are going to have problems if they are adverse to phone communications. For example, if you want to do a food startup and work with farms, you are probably going to need to hire an old-school phone-loving sales person to help you if you are adverse to phones because many farmers are pretty much the opposite of this article. No call, no business for a lot of them. Many don't communicate by email at all. It is very frustrating for those of us used to working in tech, but that's how it is right now.
- sheraz 14y agoTo each their own, but I would never want to work with someone who could not engage in small talk. We are a gregarious species, and there is so much more communicated between the stories, stupid jokes, and general banter (non-verbal) This post reads more like a personal observation of social anxiety and the maladaptive behaviors borne of it. I actually feel sorry for him because something so human and natural causes so much anxiety.
- CodeMage 14y agoOr perhaps he hates engage in small-talk over the phone, instead of face-to-face. Or maybe he doesn't like to engage in chitchat with just about anyone and reserves that for friends and family. Or we could judge him as a pathetic guy who merely airs his maladaptive behaviors on the Web.
- sheraz 14y agoYes, we can and will judge, for it is our nature (and there is nothing wrong with that). The fault lies in our stubbornness to accept another point of view or to change our minds in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But in MY case I simply offer another point of view. Take it at face value and save the speculation for the Mars probe news :-)
- dshah 14y agoOddly, I enjoy small talk in person in very small groups, but hate small talk at "networking" events (like a cocktail party). It's all about the context.
- zwieback 14y agoThere's a danger to elevate inability to communicate by phone (or face-to-face) into some kind of geek badge of honor. If you can run your business that way that's good for you but it's important to keep in mind that there are some potential clients, customers or partners that do better with phone conversations. It's not always the inability to put things in writing or plain lazyness that makes some people pick up the phone instead of firing off an email or text. Some people's brains have an easier time developing ideas in a conversation and you may miss out on valuable opportunities if you dismiss them. You could hire or partner up with someone who likes to chat.
- luser001 14y agoHmm, not sure why you conflate face-to-face and phone. I prefer to not talk over the phone, but have absolutely no problem talking face to face. Just thought I'd throw that out for the record. :)
- innguest 14y agoSame thing here, I absolutely hate talking on the phone, to the point of getting anxious when I know I am due to receive a call at any moment. However, meeting in person is probably the most pain-free type of communication for me - it even beats email because you can gauge exactly how the other person is taking in what you are saying. That's why video-chat programs like Skype help immensely with my phone anxiety. So no need to assume that those who despise the phone also dislike face-to-face interactions.
- dshah 14y agoYep. I'm cool with in-person meetings. I actually quite enjoy them (under the right circumstances). There's something about phone calls that just makes me anxious and unhappy.
- dshah 14y agoTrust me, I do not wear it as a badge of honor -- but neither is it a cloak of shame (not sure what a cloak of shame is -- I just made that up).
- rcarrigan87 14y agoGreat post. I wasn't aware some people had such an aversion to phone conversations. As for the argument email is more efficient, I don't buy it. Both email and phone are tools that can become highly efficient or huge time wasters dependent on how you use them. Really liked your advice on not making buying decisions over the phone. Thanks!
- scotty79 14y agoI have a friend who answers calls but openly warns his interlocutors that if they want him to do something they'll have to send him an email because he will most likely forget almost all of what was said (which is true).
- shanecleveland 14y agoWriting is certainly my preferred mode of communication. I believe I am able to most clearly express myself through writing – so this typically means email. I use it whenever I have the option. I am not as comfortable communicating through conversation. I know people who are extraordinary conversationalists. And I don't mean talkative. I am impressed by those who can jump into a conversation and express exactly what they want without having to collect and organize their thoughts, particularly in the give-and-take flow of a conversation. I know not everyone is like me, so I try to be flexible and accommodating to provide a comfortable platform for the other person if a phone call seems more appropriate. And sometimes a phone call is necessary.
- scott_meade 14y agoAnd yet to get signed up with Hubspot seems to require phone calls?
- CamperBob2 14y agoFine, they can talk to whoever answers the pay phone at the bus station, just like anyone else who asks for my phone number.
- mhb 14y agoI wonder if part of the dislike of the phone is related to the proliferation of the notion that cell phones work as well as land lines. I find the half duplex way a cell phone works very annoying and it often causes the awkwardness when both parties think they should start talking.
- sopooneo 14y agoI looked up "half duplex" out of interest, and it fit closely enough what I imagined it meant. But the first article I found says that cell phones are full duplex. However I've found they have a threshhold volume under which they don't send any signal to the other party, so perhaps that can make it feel like half duplex. Am I misunderstanding this? Link: http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone1.htm http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/cell-phone1.htm
- mhb 14y agoI think you are right. During my search prompted by your question I also found many complaints about phones acting as if they are half duplex though. Variously attributed to echo cancellation, low quality phones, low quality service, etc.
- falcolas 14y agoJudging by the comments - I must be the only one who feels that you can get more done in a phone call than by email. Something that can take 30 minutes to do back and forth by email or IM (usually longer, since it is asynchronous), can be resolved by a quick 2-3 minute phone call. The back and forth required to flesh out requirements and ideas just takes too long to express well in an email. And the small talk? A small price to pay for having all of your questions answered in a timely manner. Plus, it gets me better at interacting with people, which is always a winning proposition.
- codegeek 14y agoI think you make a good and interesting point. However, in my opinion, there is no zero sum game when it comes to this topic. Some situations are better handled just by email while some need to be handled by a phone call if face to face is not possible. Example, if I just need to confirm a Yes or No to someone, email is good. Why waste time getting on the phone, making conversation just because it will be rude to just sticking to the point etc. However, if I have to negotiate something or agree/decide on something, better do phone call if face to face not possible. Email is the last thing u want unless u like to see your inbox flooded with back and forth agreements/disagreements/whatifs/buts.
- klibertp 14y ago> Email is the last thing u want unless u like to see your inbox flooded with back and forth agreements/disagreements/whatifs/buts. This is not the problem with emails; it's the problem with people. Back in the nineties I had internet access just in the mornings and my friend, with whom I was working on some project, only in evenings. We each sent one letter (email) a day, yet we had great conversations and were able to decide things. How was that possible? We just put time and effort into each and every one email. Reading and replying to an email was an hour or two long activity - every point we wanted to make we first thought through and frequently we included possible counterarguments along with what we first wanted to say. We were actively helping each other with understanding and thinking, because if something was misunderstood or too hard to understand (relatively) quickly we just wasted entire day or more. You don't have to mail back and forth each other so many times. You just need to think about what you read and about what you write. And trust the other person(s) to do the same.
- xarien 14y agoI am an introvert, but have forced myself to embrace and even love picking up the phone. There is no better way to get a message across than to talk to someone (even better in person). What's even better is that you recount the conversation, action items, points taken away after the call with an email. This combination has worked beautifully for me, and I highly recommend it.
- jwwest 14y agoThis post summed up my feeling exactly as it pertains to phones. I spend at least 30 minutes before a scheduled call nervously glancing at the time, mentally preparing myself for the interaction. Extroverts don't have the capability to understand introversion, as we don't understand them. This is just a simple fact of life.
- pnathan 14y agoAs a note, this is arguing from a position of power. Some people appear to be generally incapable of textual communication; if they don't get to call you or meeting you face to face, they aren't interested in dealing with you. edit: I'd rather use textual communication; I feel its more precise, more document-able, and you have chance to really think about what you're saying. Of course I can deal with other communication modalities, but... eh. Not as optimal IMO. :-)
- realrocker 14y agoBurnt down with stress and overworking, I was looking for ways to cut down on my busy schedule. For last 4 months, I have implemented the "No Calls" policy for all work-related conversations. I just stopped picking calls if it wasn't from my family or a few friends. First few days it was tough to keep myself away from the mobile as every ring on that cuboid would race up my heart with nervous tension. But it subsided eventually. I have to agree that it has made my quality of life better.
- pseut 14y agoI wonder (sincerely), do the posters who prefer email to a phone call really find other people's writing easy to understand? I love my own emails: they're great and unambiguous and filled with insightful nuance, but half the time I receive an email from someone else I can't figure out exactly what they want, so we have to reply back and forth to clarify things or just pick up the phone and talk. And vice versa. They love their own emails too.
- sopooneo 14y agoYou make me realize that with people who can write well, I'll lean towards preferring email communication, with those who can't, I'll prefer phone. And by "write well" I don't mean having perfect grammar or spelling. I mean having clarity of thought, delivering a clear progression of ideas, and being concise.
- taf2 14y agoI changed something in my behavior about a year or so ago, I started answering every call. I put a phone number a huge one on my website and started answering and listening to my customers. It has been life changing, we know what our customers like, we know what they don't like. We're excited to hear and help them in realtime. Our customers love that we answer the phone. We also do email and live chat, but for many the phone is great. I used to suck at the phone and definitely I still have my moments. In general, I've learned how to end the bad calls quickly - or correctly in that a bad call can be your best call. When you can help a customer stay a customer, you can really do this best over the phone. I think generally, this author isn't into customers, but IMO if you're into software you have to be into customers - they are your life blood - love them :D
- arscan 14y agoDharmesh classifies himself as a "complete introvert". And his behavior with respect to phones is consistent with that. But I find it hard to believe that he has gotten to where he is today by taking this kind of hardline attitude w/all the ways that his introversion manifests itself (it makes me anxious, therefore I won't do it, sorry). I'm pretty sure that all the public speaking that he does makes him nervous as hell (he usually begins his talks by admitting that), but he does it anyway. As a fellow introvert, I am constantly trying to decide when to push myself out of my comfort zone (because it would be good for my career), and when I should just accept the way that I am and seek to add value in ways that I am most comfortable. I'd love to see Dharmesh write about how he came to the decision of where to draw that line; e.g. phone calls are out, but public speaking is in. A takeaway from this article could be "don't try to be something you're not", but I feel that its a bit more complicated than that based on what I (think I) know about him.
- LaGrange 14y agoIt's not taking a hardline attitude. If you have, for example, Aspergers, unplanned, unscheduled conversations cause incredible anxiety and are extremely hard to manage. This leads to miscommunication, arguments and pointless stress. And there's no "taking myself out of my comfort zone" that would help, I'm already out of my comfort zone whenever I talk live to someone who isn't one of the half dozen closest people in my life. And even with them it gets tricky sometimes. As for public speaking, it's actually a fairly scripted and controlled situation. A good middle-ground would probably be something like leading a table-top RPG game, though for me that's already in the realms of fantasies, and I'm pretty sure I'm doing pretty well all things considered. Anyway, the point is: some of us have our special needs. Some people need extra control over conversations due to their inherent vulnerability. It's not just introversion, it's often anxieties and social disorders. I'm still a pretty great coder that can get along with a team of living, breathing people, and deal with a stand-up every day, but an unannounced meeting — not so much.
- imgabe 14y agoMaybe I'll be in the minority here, but these are all problems with YOU, not with the telephone. Observe: > 1. I don't like synchronous communications. Ok, sure, if you're "in the zone" or something, just turn off your phone until you're done. Sometimes doing your job means responding to things synchronously. I don't think there's any careers out there that involve 8 hours of sitting in your cube uninterrupted. > 2. I hate making small talk. Boo fucking hoo. You have to express an interest in another human being's life for 5 minutes. Cry me a river. You're an introvert? So what? That doesn't give you a free pass to forgo all human interaction. > 3. I have a really hard time saying “no”. Grow a pair. It's one little syllable. "no". Practice it in front of the mirror if you have to. > 4. I'm pathologically polite, and just can't get the timing right. Talking to people is like any other skill. If you practice it, you'll get better at it. Maybe if you didn't avoid talking on the phone at all costs, you'd improve. > 5. I'm absolutely terrible at ending a call. Again, grow a pair. "Well, it's been great talking to you, but I have some work I have to get back to. Goodbye" It's not that difficult. I'm as introverted as the next guy. I hate talking on the phone too, but as an adult in a business environment, sometimes you have to. You can spend some time developing a valuable skill, or you can whine about it on the Internet.
- handelaar 14y ago> Boo fucking hoo. > Grow a pair. > Cry me a river. > So what? > Again, grow a pair. > whine about it on the internet Knock that right off, please, and do it right now.
- gfodor 14y agoI dunno I'd tend to agree with this analysis. HN is about pulling people out of their comfort zone, and if your comfort zone is so isolated that you literally cannot get on a telephone call with another human being without being overwhelmed because you need to ask how someone's day is going, you probably do need to figure out how to get over it.
- greyboy 14y agoI wholeheartedly agree. Rarely are people confronted about such things, nowadays. It's OK for someone to put on their Big Boy/Girl pants and take some criticism (tactifully, sure). Plus, civility and such are different for everyone.