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The authors are pretty clearly trying to draw only from European Portuguese sources - I feel like there's a fairly widespread attitude here that the language is

The authors are pretty clearly trying to draw only from European Portuguese sources - I feel like there's a fairly widespread attitude here that the language is being overwhelmed by the sheer number of Brazilian speakers (which there is obviously at least some truth to). I don't necessarily personally feel like preserving European Portuguese in amber is a worthwhile goal (anymore than it is productive for Brits to be prickly about the meteoric rise of US English)

madaxe_again 5mo ago
Man, there’s an attitude up here in trás-os-montes that the rest of Portugal has spoken unrecognisable trash for a century. It took me years to realise I’d learned hilariously antique Portuguese by moving there. Then again, if you go to Miranda de Douro, they’ll say the rest of Portugal has been talking nonsense for the last 700 years, so the purists at least always have their concents to retreat to if they so choose.
philipwhiuk 5mo ago
> I don't necessarily personally feel like preserving European Portuguese in amber is a worthwhile goal (anymore than it is productive for Brits to be prickly about the meteoric rise of US English). That's easy to say when you're not on the other end of US defaultism.
- augusto-moura 5mo ago
  To be fair, it is only natural: Portuguese itself only came to be because the Roman Empire conquered the Lusitan land [1], a lot of English comes from Norman French from the Norman conquest [2], the Americas didn't speak European languages until 500 years ago or so, etc. If you give enough time, all languages will change, and some of them because of major political changes/conquests [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleohispanic_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleohispanic_languages [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_French_on_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_French_on_English [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_languages_of_the_Am...
  - philipwhiuk 5mo ago
    It's natural to die during childbirth or because the sabretooth tiger nearby thought you looked like an easy target. Natural doesn't mean good.
    - augusto-moura 5mo ago
      I'm not saying that is good nor that is bad, looking through the anthropology lens there's no value judgement. Besides, differently from your shocking examples, cultures and languages don't "die" as you seem to imply, they evolve, and that part is natural and not bad or good. Portuguese (and English) will change we liking it or not
- swiftcoder 5mo ago
  > That's easy to say when you're not on the other end of US defaultism. I mean, I’m a Brit who lived a long time in the US, so that’s a dynamic with which I am rather familiar
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madaxe_again 5mo ago

Man, there’s an attitude up here in trás-os-montes that the rest of Portugal has spoken unrecognisable trash for a century. It took me years to realise I’d learned hilariously antique Portuguese by moving there. Then again, if you go to Miranda de Douro, they’ll say the rest of Portugal has been talking nonsense for the last 700 years, so the purists at least always have their concents to retreat to if they so choose.

philipwhiuk 5mo ago

> I don't necessarily personally feel like preserving European Portuguese in amber is a worthwhile goal (anymore than it is productive for Brits to be prickly about the meteoric rise of US English). That's easy to say when you're not on the other end of US defaultism.

augusto-moura 5mo ago
To be fair, it is only natural: Portuguese itself only came to be because the Roman Empire conquered the Lusitan land [1], a lot of English comes from Norman French from the Norman conquest [2], the Americas didn't speak European languages until 500 years ago or so, etc. If you give enough time, all languages will change, and some of them because of major political changes/conquests [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleohispanic_languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleohispanic_languages [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_French_on_English https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_French_on_English [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_languages_of_the_Americas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigenous_languages_of_the_Am...
- philipwhiuk 5mo ago
  It's natural to die during childbirth or because the sabretooth tiger nearby thought you looked like an easy target. Natural doesn't mean good.
  - augusto-moura 5mo ago
    I'm not saying that is good nor that is bad, looking through the anthropology lens there's no value judgement. Besides, differently from your shocking examples, cultures and languages don't "die" as you seem to imply, they evolve, and that part is natural and not bad or good. Portuguese (and English) will change we liking it or not
swiftcoder 5mo ago
> That's easy to say when you're not on the other end of US defaultism. I mean, I’m a Brit who lived a long time in the US, so that’s a dynamic with which I am rather familiar

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