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I think this conflates "old" with "killed". Most of the stuff is just old. I would say the Mac Pro was "killed", left to languish after the trashcan model, th

by benoau 6mo ago

I think this conflates "old" with "killed". Most of the stuff is just old. I would say the Mac Pro was "killed", left to languish after the trashcan model, then isolated from third party GPUs when it finally got upgraded to Apple Silicon, and then left to languish again until the lack of sales justified killing it. Rosetta 2 will certainly deserve a spot on this list next year when they start yeeting it, an amazing piece of technology that has made Apple Silicon-era Macs uniquely capable of executing the widest range of software.

jm4 6mo ago
Agreed. Aside from obsolete hardware that was replaced with newer products, there isn’t really anything on this list that I miss except for HyperCard. Just about everything worthwhile became another product or got rolled into something else.
fooker 6mo ago
> widest wider sure, but widest?
- benoau 6mo ago
  I think so, Macs can run software written for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows and Linux, everything else is incapable of running the iOS and Mac stuff. Virtualizing macOS from a Linux or Windows sucks for arbitrary reasons, and both macOS and iOS are missing a compatibility shim like WINE.
  - fooker 6mo ago
    All this sounds great in theory, but Mac does not have a particularly stable ABI and it's fairly common for closed source software from 5+ years ago to just not run.
    - criddell 6mo ago
      Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it can run more software (legally) than any other platform.
      - horsawlarway 6mo ago
        Yes, the company that explicitly closes its ecosystem can also run the more open ecosystems legally, and those open ecosystems can't legally run the closed one. That's a knock against Apple, not a bragging point.
        criddell 6mo ago
        I've come to believe Apple's way is probably the only sustainable way. I'm a Windows user who also develops for Windows desktop and it's kind of sad that even though Windows has a way larger desktop share, there just isn't much going on compared to MacOS. Every week I read about some cool new or updated MacOS application and I can't remember the last time I read something similar about a Windows application (other than games). The only reason I can think of is that MacOS developers are more motivated at least in part by having users that are willing to support developers by paying for software. In turn, users and developers willing to pay for computing motivates and enables Apple to make better hardware. They don't always get it right, but I think they are doing a better job than most companies. It's also the reason why I think Apple's recent push for services revenue is so dangerous. The incentives aren't as aligned with users. Maybe next year Framework or System76 will come out with their answer to Apple's M-series chips and I'll have to re-evaluate, but right now it feels like it's Apple against everybody else and everybody else is racing to the bottom.
        k310 5mo ago
        Quoth Steve Ballmer: "Developers, Developers, Developers!!!!!" Don't find and watch that video unless you have a therapist on the line.
rayiner 6mo ago
Right. Like the Lightning Connector and Apple SIM, replaced by USB-C and eSIM. It's like saying ISA slots were "killed by Intel."
usermac 6mo ago
Macbook 12" was the best form factor computer ever.
- trvz 6mo ago
  Size, but not form. Best form goes to the Neo, current Air, or 2015 MBP. They should be offering a 12” Air now.
  - deleted 5mo ago
    [deleted]
ryandrake 6mo ago
I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and the pretending that they don't even exist anymore. I have a house full of Apple hardware and none of them get updates from Apple anymore, and I can't manually update them without hackery (OpenCore) or wiping them to install Linux (where possible). Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore. Heck, even Homebrew, which ships open source software that has always run on my devices, relegates my hardware into their "tier 3" garbage can[1]. The combination of Apple's and third party's disinterest counts as "killed by Apple" in my book. 1: https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers
- alwillis 6mo ago
  > Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore. I think it's more about 3rd party app developers attempting to improve their products and stay relevant. If Apple releases a new framework or API that would make a developer’s app better, but it requires macOS 14 or later, are they not supposed to incorporate it? I've noticed lots of 3rd party developers keep older versions of their apps available for older macOS versions.
  - ryandrake 6mo ago
    On both macOS and iOS it is straightforward to target older devices while using the newer SDKs, and to use those new frameworks conditionally based on the user's OS. Of course, Apple's tooling makes this harder and harder to do, the older the targeted OS is.
- BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
  > I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and their pretending they don't even exist anymore. Sorry but the HomePod wasn't "killed" just because they upgraded from gen 1 to gen 2. Gen 1 HomePod literally just got a software update a month ago with another on the way. The iPhone X wasn't "killed" just because they released the iPhone 11. This list is egregiously version-centric for things where it makes no sense.
Scaevolus 6mo ago
Apple could easily support eGPUs if they wanted to, but they choose to have vertical integration over fragmentation or usefulness. It's the same as them not supporting OpenGL or Vulkan: they could if they wanted to be a better gaming/porting target, but compatibility of any sort is not a priority.
- cpuguy83 6mo ago
  Apple did recently approve drivers for both nvidia and amd, but not for gaming purposes. Apple supported OpenGL plenty, just that the world moved. Apple created metal, shortly after Vulkan was created. "They could support it if they wanted to" is almost a tautology. Of course they could. But then they have to support another thing. They are on the hook when something goes wrong.
  - benoau 6mo ago
    What they approved was very limited, unofficial 3rd party drivers with very limited application. It's the first positive sign in a decade but also almost entirely unrelated to what people would consider supporting AMD and Nvidia cards. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47640380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47640380
paprikanotfound 6mo ago
I came here to comment the same. I'm still using my iphone SE 2nd gen and it's still receiving software updates. Calling it dead is a bit misleading imo.
- linhns 6mo ago
  Fellow user here. It still surprises me on durability and usefulness. Its small size fits into my trousers’ pockets and even if it falls out, it won’t brake like a Samsung.
  - fsflover 6mo ago
    Nevertheless, when Apple decides to kill "your" hardware, you will have no recourse. You are forbidden to manage and update it yourself.

by benoau 6mo ago

jm4 6mo ago

Agreed. Aside from obsolete hardware that was replaced with newer products, there isn’t really anything on this list that I miss except for HyperCard. Just about everything worthwhile became another product or got rolled into something else.

fooker 6mo ago

> widest wider sure, but widest?

benoau 6mo ago
I think so, Macs can run software written for Android, iOS, Mac, Windows and Linux, everything else is incapable of running the iOS and Mac stuff. Virtualizing macOS from a Linux or Windows sucks for arbitrary reasons, and both macOS and iOS are missing a compatibility shim like WINE.
- fooker 6mo ago
  All this sounds great in theory, but Mac does not have a particularly stable ABI and it's fairly common for closed source software from 5+ years ago to just not run.
  - criddell 6mo ago
    Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that it can run more software (legally) than any other platform.
    - horsawlarway 6mo ago
      Yes, the company that explicitly closes its ecosystem can also run the more open ecosystems legally, and those open ecosystems can't legally run the closed one. That's a knock against Apple, not a bragging point.
      - criddell 6mo ago
        I've come to believe Apple's way is probably the only sustainable way. I'm a Windows user who also develops for Windows desktop and it's kind of sad that even though Windows has a way larger desktop share, there just isn't much going on compared to MacOS. Every week I read about some cool new or updated MacOS application and I can't remember the last time I read something similar about a Windows application (other than games). The only reason I can think of is that MacOS developers are more motivated at least in part by having users that are willing to support developers by paying for software. In turn, users and developers willing to pay for computing motivates and enables Apple to make better hardware. They don't always get it right, but I think they are doing a better job than most companies. It's also the reason why I think Apple's recent push for services revenue is so dangerous. The incentives aren't as aligned with users. Maybe next year Framework or System76 will come out with their answer to Apple's M-series chips and I'll have to re-evaluate, but right now it feels like it's Apple against everybody else and everybody else is racing to the bottom.
        k310 5mo ago
        Quoth Steve Ballmer: "Developers, Developers, Developers!!!!!" Don't find and watch that video unless you have a therapist on the line.

rayiner 6mo ago

Right. Like the Lightning Connector and Apple SIM, replaced by USB-C and eSIM. It's like saying ISA slots were "killed by Intel."

usermac 6mo ago

Macbook 12" was the best form factor computer ever.

trvz 6mo ago
Size, but not form. Best form goes to the Neo, current Air, or 2015 MBP. They should be offering a 12” Air now.
- deleted 5mo ago
  [deleted]

ryandrake 6mo ago

I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and the pretending that they don't even exist anymore. I have a house full of Apple hardware and none of them get updates from Apple anymore, and I can't manually update them without hackery (OpenCore) or wiping them to install Linux (where possible). Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore. Heck, even Homebrew, which ships open source software that has always run on my devices, relegates my hardware into their "tier 3" garbage can[1]. The combination of Apple's and third party's disinterest counts as "killed by Apple" in my book. 1: https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers https://docs.brew.sh/Support-Tiers

alwillis 6mo ago
> Also, because third party app developers largely align with Apple's philosophy, less and less 3rd party software even works on my computers anymore. I think it's more about 3rd party app developers attempting to improve their products and stay relevant. If Apple releases a new framework or API that would make a developer’s app better, but it requires macOS 14 or later, are they not supposed to incorporate it? I've noticed lots of 3rd party developers keep older versions of their apps available for older macOS versions.
- ryandrake 6mo ago
  On both macOS and iOS it is straightforward to target older devices while using the newer SDKs, and to use those new frameworks conditionally based on the user's OS. Of course, Apple's tooling makes this harder and harder to do, the older the targeted OS is.
BugsJustFindMe 6mo ago
> I think it's important to highlight Apple's mentality: That old devices are dead to them, and their pretending they don't even exist anymore. Sorry but the HomePod wasn't "killed" just because they upgraded from gen 1 to gen 2. Gen 1 HomePod literally just got a software update a month ago with another on the way. The iPhone X wasn't "killed" just because they released the iPhone 11. This list is egregiously version-centric for things where it makes no sense.

Scaevolus 6mo ago

Apple could easily support eGPUs if they wanted to, but they choose to have vertical integration over fragmentation or usefulness. It's the same as them not supporting OpenGL or Vulkan: they could if they wanted to be a better gaming/porting target, but compatibility of any sort is not a priority.

cpuguy83 6mo ago
Apple did recently approve drivers for both nvidia and amd, but not for gaming purposes. Apple supported OpenGL plenty, just that the world moved. Apple created metal, shortly after Vulkan was created. "They could support it if they wanted to" is almost a tautology. Of course they could. But then they have to support another thing. They are on the hook when something goes wrong.
- benoau 6mo ago
  What they approved was very limited, unofficial 3rd party drivers with very limited application. It's the first positive sign in a decade but also almost entirely unrelated to what people would consider supporting AMD and Nvidia cards. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47640380 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47640380

paprikanotfound 6mo ago

I came here to comment the same. I'm still using my iphone SE 2nd gen and it's still receiving software updates. Calling it dead is a bit misleading imo.

linhns 6mo ago
Fellow user here. It still surprises me on durability and usefulness. Its small size fits into my trousers’ pockets and even if it falls out, it won’t brake like a Samsung.
- fsflover 6mo ago
  Nevertheless, when Apple decides to kill "your" hardware, you will have no recourse. You are forbidden to manage and update it yourself.