5 ms·

I like this. No reason the terminal should only support text. Data science notebooks show one way the terminal can evolve. Lots of interesting stuff happening i

I like this. No reason the terminal should only support text. Data science notebooks show one way the terminal can evolve. Lots of interesting stuff happening in this space, with Kitty probably being the most aggressive innovator here [1]. I'm not sure there is an overall vision, though. [1]: https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/protocol-extensions/ https://sw.kovidgoyal.net/kitty/protocol-extensions/

bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
Terry A Davis already did this. It was as crazy then as it is now
- Wololooo 5mo ago
  Obligatory Temple OS unhinged video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o48KzPa42_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o48KzPa42_o Joking apart, the whole thing was both an exercise in madness and genius. Sometimes I wonder what he would have done if he had not gone crazy. We will never know...
  - AdmiralAsshat 5mo ago
    > Sometimes I wonder what he would have done if he had not gone crazy. At what point do you consider he had "gone crazy" relative to the development of TempleOS? Only when he committed suicide? Shortly before then? Last ____ years of his life? Without trying to sound insensitive, I'd personally argue the entire OS was the byproduct of a "crazy" individual.
    - drakythe 5mo ago
      The inspiration may have been all "crazy" but the implementation was still really neat, and it takes a lot of effort and skill to get to the point he did before his death. The thing about people who lose touch with reality is that their efforts to create or express something often make no sense to the rest of us. TempleOS, however, works. Terry create an OS from scratch, an entire new language (or variant of a language) in the form of HolyC, and not only does it all work together in a way that requires no disconnect from reality, it works well for his goals and philosophy. The entire thing may be the result of a person suffering from schizoaffective disorder, but that person still held a great deal of skill to implement that idea and enough of a touch with the reality of computer hardware to make it happen.
      - bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
        > TempleOS, however, works But only in 640*480, without networking or usb. Oh and virtual memory is a government conspiracy so expect crashes. He also said the n word a lot
        drakythe 5mo ago
        I'm aware. None of that has any bearing on whether or not his grasp on reality was firm enough to create TempleOS.
    - compass_copium 5mo ago
      I took the parent comment to mean, what would Terry have made if he wasn't crazy and didn't make a God-themed novelty OS?
  - wompawoo 5mo ago
    He'd probably be writing poison pill generators for AI, obfuscation tools (in the vein of public key crypto, but using entirely plaintext, in a style similar to Cockney rhyming slang) for social media posting. He was pretty anarchistic and antiestablishment. I'm sure we'd still see that coming through.
- ch4s3 5mo ago
  The person who built this directly cites Terry as the inspiration.
alias_neo 5mo ago
I wonder if something like this could work for thumbnails in the terminal; I prefer to browse my filesystem from a terminal rather than the point and click file manager typically, and it would be really useful if I could have a grid-style `ls` with terminal based renders of the 3d models (thinking STL/STEP, 3D printing) in that directory. Bonus points if I could preview/rotate the model to inspect it.
- calvinmorrison 5mo ago
  You can do this with thumbnails using sixels already
  - kjs3 5mo ago
    You could probably do something interesting with Tek 4014 emulation, but I think you're right that sixel would be slick.
- noelwelsh 5mo ago
  eza [1] is a step in that direction. It lacks the interactivity, however. [1]: github.com/eza-community/eza
- em-bee 5mo ago
  as a compromise i started using nemo/n̶a̶u̶t̶i̶l̶u̶s̶ with a plugin that puts a terminal at the bottom of each tab. so i have a graphical view of the terminal but a commandline in the same folder right next to it. the two don't interact other than being able drag and drop filenames from the filemanager into the terminal, so it is far from what we really want, but it's a small start.
  - passivepinetree 5mo ago
    Do you mind sharing a little more about the plugin you use? A quick online search wasn't very helpful to me but I've also been hoping for something like this.
    - 5mo ago
the_other 5mo ago
Mix this 3d graphics, with data science notebooks, with local LLMs, and perhaps an integrated coding harness, with visibility over your personal data and you’d have something absurdly good. This might overtake “a haiku+macOS mashup” as my idealised computing future.
- miah_ 5mo ago
  At that point you've re-invented emacs.
  - mghackerlady 5mo ago
    Greenspun’s Tenth Rule of Programming states that any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp.
    - kirubakaran 5mo ago
      I like rtm's corollary: "... including Common Lisp" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule
  - em-bee 5mo ago
    well, almost. if emacs offers a graphical file manager i'll consider using it. this seems to be a start: https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-file-manager https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-file-manager. the file manager needs to also integrate with a terminal though so i can run unix commands in the same directory. and it needs to support mouse-based operations too. finally, and that's the real kicker, i'd like a better integration of the terminal output and the graphical display by supporting the passing of structured data that the display knows how to handle without terminal escape codes. those need to go away. (which is why sixels are not a solution either)
    - gcr 5mo ago
      I’m so sorry to say this but what you want is vscode That, or eshell and emacs-ipython-notebook
sublinear 5mo ago
> push the state of terminal emulators forward What's overlooked here are the insane political and economic forces that were required to get anywhere close to the (sort of!) consistent implementation of plain text we have today. These projects try to piggyback off that success yet only contribute back harm. We have standards for a reason. I'm not saying people can't have fun, but don't try to start a cyberpunk-inspired revolution and then blame the side effects of groupthink and software rot on everyone else when it goes sideways.
- krautburglar 5mo ago
  Exactly this. They are slowly turning the terminal into a web browser, just for attention. We already have web browsers. If you want something at the midpoint, make it, but please don’t call it a terminal & destroy one of the few non-trojan-horse standards that we have left.
joouha 5mo ago
No evolution necessary! With my project, euporie [1], you can have use your data science notebooks with graphical image outputs, HTML, LaTeX, etc, all in the terminal. [1] https://github.com/joouha/euporie https://github.com/joouha/euporie
- Imustaskforhelp 5mo ago
  This is such an amazing project. I find it so awesome that I can bump on such projects (and their creators, Hi!) on hackernews. I wish to ask a question if I may (and as such pardon my ignorance on jupyter kernel, I don't know much about it and I hope you can tell me more about it :-D) but my question is, is there a way to swap the jupyter kernel within euphorie to something else more minimalist? And when you run a project with ssh, there are ways to give access to other users with user:password if I may ask? I didn't know that there were ways to run jupyter kernels in terminal, I don't know when I might need it but I am prepared with this information now, this feels so nice to me, thanks for making it!! This is like a checklist of a thing I didn't know that I needed/existed but the second I know that it has existed, it feels like my mind has checked it off and just a satisfaction from knowing projects like these existing. (I think in some sense this is a bit of same reaction to me on Ratty too), Its just so good seeing projects in these spaces :-D Edit: just remembered the one time I think I was using some websites which gave me jupyter and then I tried to use browsh to run jupyter to run jupyter in terminal so that it can be controlled by terminal but it had some issues and I wasn't able to run it. I also wish to ask if there is a way to sign in to jupyter instance like that itself perhaps? (IIRC it was a jupyterhub instance)
  - joouha 5mo ago
    > is there a way to swap the jupyter kernel within euphorie to something else more minimalist? You can use euporie-console for a REPL-like terminal experience (still with rich outputs) if you don't want the full notebook experience. You can also select the `local-python` kernel in euporie to run code using the local Python interpretor which runs euporie, instead of connecting to a Jupyter kernel. > And when you run a project with ssh, there are ways to give access to other users with user:password if I may ask? > I also wish to ask if there is a way to sign in to jupyter instance like that itself perhaps? euporie-hub supports spawning notebook instances for connected users, but I haven't implemented collaborative editing like JupyterLab supports (yet). I believe that jpterm [1] might support this. [1] https://github.com/davidbrochart/jpterm https://github.com/davidbrochart/jpterm
panki27 5mo ago
I managed to get `pyvista` to render arbitrary 3D shapes directly to the terminal using kitty graphics. It's a giant hack, only way to make it performant is using shm. https://git.theresno.cloud/panki/kglobe https://git.theresno.cloud/panki/kglobe
dTal 5mo ago
ipython-qtconsole seems very underappreciated to me.
pjmlp 5mo ago
It doesn't, that is an issue with how UNIX terminals came to be, and the whole backwards compatibility pretending that an HiDPi screen is a VT 100. Terminals on other operating systems that grew up with a framebuffer don't have this limitation.
- jdougan 5mo ago
  Or for that matter, the magic that was a Tektronix storage scope terminal (and compatibles. At school there was a vt10x that had been modified to act like a Tek 4014 by some third party).

bcjdjsndon 5mo ago

Terry A Davis already did this. It was as crazy then as it is now

Wololooo 5mo ago
Obligatory Temple OS unhinged video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o48KzPa42_o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o48KzPa42_o Joking apart, the whole thing was both an exercise in madness and genius. Sometimes I wonder what he would have done if he had not gone crazy. We will never know...
- AdmiralAsshat 5mo ago
  > Sometimes I wonder what he would have done if he had not gone crazy. At what point do you consider he had "gone crazy" relative to the development of TempleOS? Only when he committed suicide? Shortly before then? Last ____ years of his life? Without trying to sound insensitive, I'd personally argue the entire OS was the byproduct of a "crazy" individual.
  - drakythe 5mo ago
    The inspiration may have been all "crazy" but the implementation was still really neat, and it takes a lot of effort and skill to get to the point he did before his death. The thing about people who lose touch with reality is that their efforts to create or express something often make no sense to the rest of us. TempleOS, however, works. Terry create an OS from scratch, an entire new language (or variant of a language) in the form of HolyC, and not only does it all work together in a way that requires no disconnect from reality, it works well for his goals and philosophy. The entire thing may be the result of a person suffering from schizoaffective disorder, but that person still held a great deal of skill to implement that idea and enough of a touch with the reality of computer hardware to make it happen.
    - bcjdjsndon 5mo ago
      > TempleOS, however, works But only in 640*480, without networking or usb. Oh and virtual memory is a government conspiracy so expect crashes. He also said the n word a lot
      - drakythe 5mo ago
        I'm aware. None of that has any bearing on whether or not his grasp on reality was firm enough to create TempleOS.
  - compass_copium 5mo ago
    I took the parent comment to mean, what would Terry have made if he wasn't crazy and didn't make a God-themed novelty OS?
- wompawoo 5mo ago
  He'd probably be writing poison pill generators for AI, obfuscation tools (in the vein of public key crypto, but using entirely plaintext, in a style similar to Cockney rhyming slang) for social media posting. He was pretty anarchistic and antiestablishment. I'm sure we'd still see that coming through.
ch4s3 5mo ago
The person who built this directly cites Terry as the inspiration.

alias_neo 5mo ago

I wonder if something like this could work for thumbnails in the terminal; I prefer to browse my filesystem from a terminal rather than the point and click file manager typically, and it would be really useful if I could have a grid-style `ls` with terminal based renders of the 3d models (thinking STL/STEP, 3D printing) in that directory. Bonus points if I could preview/rotate the model to inspect it.

calvinmorrison 5mo ago
You can do this with thumbnails using sixels already
- kjs3 5mo ago
  You could probably do something interesting with Tek 4014 emulation, but I think you're right that sixel would be slick.
noelwelsh 5mo ago
eza [1] is a step in that direction. It lacks the interactivity, however. [1]: github.com/eza-community/eza
em-bee 5mo ago
as a compromise i started using nemo/n̶a̶u̶t̶i̶l̶u̶s̶ with a plugin that puts a terminal at the bottom of each tab. so i have a graphical view of the terminal but a commandline in the same folder right next to it. the two don't interact other than being able drag and drop filenames from the filemanager into the terminal, so it is far from what we really want, but it's a small start.
- passivepinetree 5mo ago
  Do you mind sharing a little more about the plugin you use? A quick online search wasn't very helpful to me but I've also been hoping for something like this.
  - 5mo ago

the_other 5mo ago

Mix this 3d graphics, with data science notebooks, with local LLMs, and perhaps an integrated coding harness, with visibility over your personal data and you’d have something absurdly good. This might overtake “a haiku+macOS mashup” as my idealised computing future.

miah_ 5mo ago
At that point you've re-invented emacs.
- mghackerlady 5mo ago
  Greenspun’s Tenth Rule of Programming states that any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp.
  - kirubakaran 5mo ago
    I like rtm's corollary: "... including Common Lisp" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule
- em-bee 5mo ago
  well, almost. if emacs offers a graphical file manager i'll consider using it. this seems to be a start: https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-file-manager https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-file-manager. the file manager needs to also integrate with a terminal though so i can run unix commands in the same directory. and it needs to support mouse-based operations too. finally, and that's the real kicker, i'd like a better integration of the terminal output and the graphical display by supporting the passing of structured data that the display knows how to handle without terminal escape codes. those need to go away. (which is why sixels are not a solution either)
  - gcr 5mo ago
    I’m so sorry to say this but what you want is vscode That, or eshell and emacs-ipython-notebook

sublinear 5mo ago

> push the state of terminal emulators forward What's overlooked here are the insane political and economic forces that were required to get anywhere close to the (sort of!) consistent implementation of plain text we have today. These projects try to piggyback off that success yet only contribute back harm. We have standards for a reason. I'm not saying people can't have fun, but don't try to start a cyberpunk-inspired revolution and then blame the side effects of groupthink and software rot on everyone else when it goes sideways.

krautburglar 5mo ago
Exactly this. They are slowly turning the terminal into a web browser, just for attention. We already have web browsers. If you want something at the midpoint, make it, but please don’t call it a terminal & destroy one of the few non-trojan-horse standards that we have left.

joouha 5mo ago

No evolution necessary! With my project, euporie [1], you can have use your data science notebooks with graphical image outputs, HTML, LaTeX, etc, all in the terminal. [1] https://github.com/joouha/euporie https://github.com/joouha/euporie

Imustaskforhelp 5mo ago
This is such an amazing project. I find it so awesome that I can bump on such projects (and their creators, Hi!) on hackernews. I wish to ask a question if I may (and as such pardon my ignorance on jupyter kernel, I don't know much about it and I hope you can tell me more about it :-D) but my question is, is there a way to swap the jupyter kernel within euphorie to something else more minimalist? And when you run a project with ssh, there are ways to give access to other users with user:password if I may ask? I didn't know that there were ways to run jupyter kernels in terminal, I don't know when I might need it but I am prepared with this information now, this feels so nice to me, thanks for making it!! This is like a checklist of a thing I didn't know that I needed/existed but the second I know that it has existed, it feels like my mind has checked it off and just a satisfaction from knowing projects like these existing. (I think in some sense this is a bit of same reaction to me on Ratty too), Its just so good seeing projects in these spaces :-D Edit: just remembered the one time I think I was using some websites which gave me jupyter and then I tried to use browsh to run jupyter to run jupyter in terminal so that it can be controlled by terminal but it had some issues and I wasn't able to run it. I also wish to ask if there is a way to sign in to jupyter instance like that itself perhaps? (IIRC it was a jupyterhub instance)
- joouha 5mo ago
  > is there a way to swap the jupyter kernel within euphorie to something else more minimalist? You can use euporie-console for a REPL-like terminal experience (still with rich outputs) if you don't want the full notebook experience. You can also select the `local-python` kernel in euporie to run code using the local Python interpretor which runs euporie, instead of connecting to a Jupyter kernel. > And when you run a project with ssh, there are ways to give access to other users with user:password if I may ask? > I also wish to ask if there is a way to sign in to jupyter instance like that itself perhaps? euporie-hub supports spawning notebook instances for connected users, but I haven't implemented collaborative editing like JupyterLab supports (yet). I believe that jpterm [1] might support this. [1] https://github.com/davidbrochart/jpterm https://github.com/davidbrochart/jpterm

panki27 5mo ago

I managed to get `pyvista` to render arbitrary 3D shapes directly to the terminal using kitty graphics. It's a giant hack, only way to make it performant is using shm. https://git.theresno.cloud/panki/kglobe https://git.theresno.cloud/panki/kglobe

dTal 5mo ago

ipython-qtconsole seems very underappreciated to me.

pjmlp 5mo ago

It doesn't, that is an issue with how UNIX terminals came to be, and the whole backwards compatibility pretending that an HiDPi screen is a VT 100. Terminals on other operating systems that grew up with a framebuffer don't have this limitation.

jdougan 5mo ago
Or for that matter, the magic that was a Tektronix storage scope terminal (and compatibles. At school there was a vt10x that had been modified to act like a Tek 4014 by some third party).