5 ms·

Fraud prevention will never be free. Neither will payments.

aptwebapps 14y ago
I was going to say, 'Is risk management free?'. However, there are other ways to make money than transaction fees. For instance, merely having people hold money in their accounts allows them to earn interest on it.
netcan 14y ago
Accepting cash is free. With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary.
- Uchikoma 14y ago
  I beg you pardon, but a large segment of internet fraud is: You pay me for a laptop, I send you a brick. This does not depend on a payment method, the problem is the time delay between sending money and sending the goods - especially goods delivery not being instantaneous. So without an escrow service there will be this kind of fraud, and someone will want his money back. [edit] And people will not only send to friends if you are successful.
  - netcan 14y ago
    Thats probably a relatively small part, but influential as it scares people away from paying for things online. The larger segments are (1)I pay you for a laptop with a stolen credit card. You send me the laptop. The credit card company takes the money back off you. and (2) I pay you for a laptop with a stolen credit card. You send me the laptop. I say you sent me a brick. The credit card company takes the money back off you.
- aes256 14y ago
  > Accepting cash is free. Accepting it might be free, but what happens when you need to transfer large amounts of cash from your premises to a bank? Cash-in-transit services aren't free. > With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary. Not if we include the identification and rejection of counterfeit currency.
- wwwtyro 14y ago
  Cash includes anti-counterfeiting measures, though, which are not free. The cash itself must be printed, too - also not free.
- DougBTX 14y ago
  In the US, the transfer of cash is regulated, which might be relevant to the argument you are making: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#Preventive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#Preventive
- rmc 14y ago
  Accepting cash is free. What about the costs of storing cash? What about the costs of going to the bank and depositing cash? What about the transport and storage of storing low denomination notes/coins so you can give change? What about the costs & risks of being robbed of your cash? What about the costs of a staff member being robbed of the cash? Accepting cash is not free. With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary. Ever seen a fake note? A fake coin (yes they exist)? What about a coin from a foreign country that looks like one of your coins, but is worth a fraction of the amount? What about the costs of the little ultraviolet light to check notes for legitimacy? What about the cost of the few seconds the cashier needs to look at each note to check that it's not a fake? What about the costs of the little highlighter pen they can run across it? Fraud preventing for cash isn't free.
matthewowen 14y ago
This is clearly incorrect. Visit the UK some time. Bank accounts are free, interest bearing, often come with incentives (I get £5 a month from my bank for paying my salary into the account), and offer free online transfer to other UK bank accounts. Oh, and you can withdraw money from any cashpoint for free - not just those of your own bank Of course, this probably isn't something the bank makes money on. They make money on fees for overdrafts, and on the profit making products they can more easily sell to existing customers. But the same thing happens in the US, too. In short, don't assume that the massive flaws in US consumer banking are universal, or that they're fundamental to the nature of consumer banking.
- jasonlingx 14y ago
  I'm from Singapore, I've never been to the US and I've lived in the UK for 6 years previously. Remember we're talking about accepting payments here, not opening a bank account. And if free online transfers are so viable for this, why do hardly any UK online merchants accept it as a form of payment and almost all accept the usual credit cards and Paypal? My guess: fraud /risk management and scale.

I was going to say, 'Is risk management free?'. However, there are other ways to make money than transaction fees. For instance, merely having people hold money in their accounts allows them to earn interest on it.

netcan 14y ago

Accepting cash is free. With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary.

Uchikoma 14y ago
I beg you pardon, but a large segment of internet fraud is: You pay me for a laptop, I send you a brick. This does not depend on a payment method, the problem is the time delay between sending money and sending the goods - especially goods delivery not being instantaneous. So without an escrow service there will be this kind of fraud, and someone will want his money back. [edit] And people will not only send to friends if you are successful.
- netcan 14y ago
  Thats probably a relatively small part, but influential as it scares people away from paying for things online. The larger segments are (1)I pay you for a laptop with a stolen credit card. You send me the laptop. The credit card company takes the money back off you. and (2) I pay you for a laptop with a stolen credit card. You send me the laptop. I say you sent me a brick. The credit card company takes the money back off you.
aes256 14y ago
> Accepting cash is free. Accepting it might be free, but what happens when you need to transfer large amounts of cash from your premises to a bank? Cash-in-transit services aren't free. > With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary. Not if we include the identification and rejection of counterfeit currency.
wwwtyro 14y ago
Cash includes anti-counterfeiting measures, though, which are not free. The cash itself must be printed, too - also not free.
DougBTX 14y ago
In the US, the transfer of cash is regulated, which might be relevant to the argument you are making: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#Preventive http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering#Preventive
rmc 14y ago
Accepting cash is free. What about the costs of storing cash? What about the costs of going to the bank and depositing cash? What about the transport and storage of storing low denomination notes/coins so you can give change? What about the costs & risks of being robbed of your cash? What about the costs of a staff member being robbed of the cash? Accepting cash is not free. With cash fraud prevention is unnecessary. Ever seen a fake note? A fake coin (yes they exist)? What about a coin from a foreign country that looks like one of your coins, but is worth a fraction of the amount? What about the costs of the little ultraviolet light to check notes for legitimacy? What about the cost of the few seconds the cashier needs to look at each note to check that it's not a fake? What about the costs of the little highlighter pen they can run across it? Fraud preventing for cash isn't free.

matthewowen 14y ago

This is clearly incorrect. Visit the UK some time. Bank accounts are free, interest bearing, often come with incentives (I get £5 a month from my bank for paying my salary into the account), and offer free online transfer to other UK bank accounts. Oh, and you can withdraw money from any cashpoint for free - not just those of your own bank Of course, this probably isn't something the bank makes money on. They make money on fees for overdrafts, and on the profit making products they can more easily sell to existing customers. But the same thing happens in the US, too. In short, don't assume that the massive flaws in US consumer banking are universal, or that they're fundamental to the nature of consumer banking.

jasonlingx 14y ago
I'm from Singapore, I've never been to the US and I've lived in the UK for 6 years previously. Remember we're talking about accepting payments here, not opening a bank account. And if free online transfers are so viable for this, why do hardly any UK online merchants accept it as a form of payment and almost all accept the usual credit cards and Paypal? My guess: fraud /risk management and scale.