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I would love that. But that is not going to happen. We would need tangible, meaningful productivity improvements for it to be possible. LLMs are sort of modera

I would love that. But that is not going to happen. We would need tangible, meaningful productivity improvements for it to be possible. LLMs are sort of moderately useful, but companies adopting it see no real productivity increase (they see cost increase however). In many ways it is a bullshit technology, being marketed way beyond its capabilities.

sillyfluke 6mo ago
>But that is not going to happen. I don't think the 8-hour work day was accepted during the industrial revolution because job providers were convinced of productivity gains. It was won due to the leverage the labor unions and workers had over job providers. The whole thing rests on whether workers can maintain their leverage in the AI era. That leverage is being eroded by the attempt by job providers to decouple humans from production and productivity (whether they will be succesful in this iteration is, as you say, debatable). The other axis is the attempt to erode democratic norms in order to prevent the majority from checking the power of a wealthy minority. Once those two points of leverage are completely eroded, the only leverage left is mob power. And as history has shown on multiple occasions, excercising that leverage is ugly and messy.
- deleted 6mo ago
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- surgical_fire 6mo ago
  > I don't think the 8-hour work day was accepted during the industrial revolution because job providers were convinced of productivity gains. It was won due to the leverage the labor unions and workers had over job providers. Good point. Count me in. > The whole thing rests on whether workers can maintain their leverage in the AI era. That leverage is being eroded by the attempt by job providers to decouple humans from production and productivity Being brutally honest, I have zero concerns about AI displacing jobs en masse. I honestly believe it to be a deadend technology. And I say this as someone that uses it daily. I am a lot more concerned about the incoming economic downturn. Things have the potential get very ugly pretty soon. This will have a huge detrimental impact on labor rights for the foreseeable future. AI is just smoke and mirrors, something asshole CEOs can gesture at to spin layoffs as optimistic and sound like visionaries while mismanaging companies under their control.
tavavex 6mo ago
It's not about productivity. Never was. If humanity doubled its productivity tomorrow, companies would either demand triple the output and/or lay off the majority of their workers. The length of work weeks is a question of worker rights, which at this point seems like a distant concept from a bygone era. It will never make sense for businesses to shorten work weeks voluntarily.

sillyfluke 6mo ago

>But that is not going to happen. I don't think the 8-hour work day was accepted during the industrial revolution because job providers were convinced of productivity gains. It was won due to the leverage the labor unions and workers had over job providers. The whole thing rests on whether workers can maintain their leverage in the AI era. That leverage is being eroded by the attempt by job providers to decouple humans from production and productivity (whether they will be succesful in this iteration is, as you say, debatable). The other axis is the attempt to erode democratic norms in order to prevent the majority from checking the power of a wealthy minority. Once those two points of leverage are completely eroded, the only leverage left is mob power. And as history has shown on multiple occasions, excercising that leverage is ugly and messy.

deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
surgical_fire 6mo ago
> I don't think the 8-hour work day was accepted during the industrial revolution because job providers were convinced of productivity gains. It was won due to the leverage the labor unions and workers had over job providers. Good point. Count me in. > The whole thing rests on whether workers can maintain their leverage in the AI era. That leverage is being eroded by the attempt by job providers to decouple humans from production and productivity Being brutally honest, I have zero concerns about AI displacing jobs en masse. I honestly believe it to be a deadend technology. And I say this as someone that uses it daily. I am a lot more concerned about the incoming economic downturn. Things have the potential get very ugly pretty soon. This will have a huge detrimental impact on labor rights for the foreseeable future. AI is just smoke and mirrors, something asshole CEOs can gesture at to spin layoffs as optimistic and sound like visionaries while mismanaging companies under their control.

tavavex 6mo ago

It's not about productivity. Never was. If humanity doubled its productivity tomorrow, companies would either demand triple the output and/or lay off the majority of their workers. The length of work weeks is a question of worker rights, which at this point seems like a distant concept from a bygone era. It will never make sense for businesses to shorten work weeks voluntarily.