4 ms·

The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on t

by tux3 5mo ago

The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself. The US secret service was originally created specifically to combat counterfeit money, it's no surprise that they would keep tracking this man for a decade. This man is unusual because he did the tiniest amount of one the most severely punished crime.

cenamus 5mo ago
Also a fascinating read: The Nazi counterfeiting operation, intended to devalue the Pound and crash the British economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard
- gosub100 5mo ago
  north korea has been doing it against the US for decades. they are better at printing our currency than we are.
  - cenamus 5mo ago
    I suppose mostly to fund their "ventures"?
intrasight 5mo ago
I have two "counterfeiting" stories - both of which are humorous even though one involve the Secret Service. The first was in college. A buddy of mine scribbled a facsimile of a $20 onto a piece of paper with a green marker. He then handed it to the checkout clerk at the cafeteria who took it and started to hand them back change. He stopped her and said "no, no it's a joke - look at what I just handed you". She was embarrassed but they both laughed together. The second story which does involve the Secret Service is when my friend had a bunch of presents that he had wrapped and put in his front porch until was going to depart for a party. One of the presents was wrapped in a sheet of uncut dollar bills - which you could buy for that purpose. A neppy neighbor saw it through the window and called the police who called the FBI who called the Secret Service who came knocking on his door to investigate. They were also embarrassed but I don't think they laughed. My friend told him he understands that they're just doing their job and that it's an important one.
- gblargg 5mo ago
  The best are sheets of $2 bills with perforations, as Steve Wozniak did: https://youtu.be/LJ1TIYxm1vM https://youtu.be/LJ1TIYxm1vM
  - intrasight 5mo ago
    That's wonderful. what a prankster is Wozniak!
  - Wowfunhappy 5mo ago
    ^ This clip made me want to watch the full interview, which was somewhat difficult to find. I eventually managed to pull a copy out of the Wayback Machine. In case anyone else wants it: https://web.archive.org/web/20111214055934if_/http://cdn22.castfire.com/video/313/2207/8016/503665/engadget_show_2011-01-31-115805-4141-3-5-0.2500.mp4?cdn_id=37&uuid=8e20d7f74dc25153e5cb09b431e5e40c&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fcastfire_videos%2F503665%2Fengadget_show_2011-01-31-115805.2500.mp4 https://web.archive.org/web/20111214055934if_/http://cdn22.c...
- technothrasher 5mo ago
  > The first was in college. I remember my friend coming home from his first year in college and telling me about how he passed a counterfeit $30 he'd found to a clueless clerk and they actually made the correct change. My wise-ass response was that that wasn't actually counterfeit, it was just fraud.
  - chuckadams 5mo ago
    The fraud of passing off something of lesser value as the genuine article is the definition of counterfeiting.
    - Uvix 5mo ago
      But there is no such thing as a “genuine” $30 bill.
JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
> the state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters This is empirically untrue [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_money#Penalties_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_money#Penalties_by...
- cowsandmilk 5mo ago
  The number of countries where life imprisonment is available possible sentence for counterfeiting seems to confirm it having some of the harshest punishments.
  - PowerElectronix 5mo ago
    One of the fastest ways to make a state powerless is to make the money they issue and use to pay for everything worthless.
  - JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
    > number of countries where life imprisonment is available All of those, I believe, have the death penalty for e.g. corporate fraud. This is a bit of a nut job hypothesis. States don’t collapse because of private counterfeiting. It simply becomes an economic nuisance. The budget given to anti-counterfeiting in any country is generally a rounding error compared with other policing.
lukan 5mo ago
"since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself" If somebody beats someone else up, to teach him a lesson - this is also a direct attack on the state itself, the monopoly on violence. But "large scale"? This old man with his crude tools and bad 1 dollar notes? "The press adored him and the public sympathized with him. " That is probably the bit, that got them engaged. Cannot have this set as an example that works out for someone.
- denkmoon 5mo ago
  > this is also a direct attack on the state itself, the monopoly on violence. not quite, the state monopolises _legitimate_ violence. it delegitimises the violence of individuals by making assault etc illegal.
  - hx8 5mo ago
    I don't fully understand how this isn't a monopoly on violence.
  - bombcar 5mo ago
    Saying “the state has a monopoly on violence” is basically saying the state is a state. I’m not sure it ever really provides much real insight.
eru 5mo ago
> The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself. Which is pretty ironic, given that the state need not be involved in providing physical cash at all.

by tux3 5mo ago

cenamus 5mo ago

Also a fascinating read: The Nazi counterfeiting operation, intended to devalue the Pound and crash the British economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard

gosub100 5mo ago
north korea has been doing it against the US for decades. they are better at printing our currency than we are.
- cenamus 5mo ago
  I suppose mostly to fund their "ventures"?

intrasight 5mo ago

I have two "counterfeiting" stories - both of which are humorous even though one involve the Secret Service. The first was in college. A buddy of mine scribbled a facsimile of a $20 onto a piece of paper with a green marker. He then handed it to the checkout clerk at the cafeteria who took it and started to hand them back change. He stopped her and said "no, no it's a joke - look at what I just handed you". She was embarrassed but they both laughed together. The second story which does involve the Secret Service is when my friend had a bunch of presents that he had wrapped and put in his front porch until was going to depart for a party. One of the presents was wrapped in a sheet of uncut dollar bills - which you could buy for that purpose. A neppy neighbor saw it through the window and called the police who called the FBI who called the Secret Service who came knocking on his door to investigate. They were also embarrassed but I don't think they laughed. My friend told him he understands that they're just doing their job and that it's an important one.

gblargg 5mo ago
The best are sheets of $2 bills with perforations, as Steve Wozniak did: https://youtu.be/LJ1TIYxm1vM https://youtu.be/LJ1TIYxm1vM
- intrasight 5mo ago
  That's wonderful. what a prankster is Wozniak!
- Wowfunhappy 5mo ago
  ^ This clip made me want to watch the full interview, which was somewhat difficult to find. I eventually managed to pull a copy out of the Wayback Machine. In case anyone else wants it: https://web.archive.org/web/20111214055934if_/http://cdn22.castfire.com/video/313/2207/8016/503665/engadget_show_2011-01-31-115805-4141-3-5-0.2500.mp4?cdn_id=37&uuid=8e20d7f74dc25153e5cb09b431e5e40c&referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.engadget.com%2Fcastfire_videos%2F503665%2Fengadget_show_2011-01-31-115805.2500.mp4 https://web.archive.org/web/20111214055934if_/http://cdn22.c...
technothrasher 5mo ago
> The first was in college. I remember my friend coming home from his first year in college and telling me about how he passed a counterfeit $30 he'd found to a clueless clerk and they actually made the correct change. My wise-ass response was that that wasn't actually counterfeit, it was just fraud.
- chuckadams 5mo ago
  The fraud of passing off something of lesser value as the genuine article is the definition of counterfeiting.
  - Uvix 5mo ago
    But there is no such thing as a “genuine” $30 bill.

JumpCrisscross 5mo ago

> the state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters This is empirically untrue [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_money#Penalties_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterfeit_money#Penalties_by...

cowsandmilk 5mo ago
The number of countries where life imprisonment is available possible sentence for counterfeiting seems to confirm it having some of the harshest punishments.
- PowerElectronix 5mo ago
  One of the fastest ways to make a state powerless is to make the money they issue and use to pay for everything worthless.
- JumpCrisscross 5mo ago
  > number of countries where life imprisonment is available All of those, I believe, have the death penalty for e.g. corporate fraud. This is a bit of a nut job hypothesis. States don’t collapse because of private counterfeiting. It simply becomes an economic nuisance. The budget given to anti-counterfeiting in any country is generally a rounding error compared with other policing.

lukan 5mo ago

"since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself" If somebody beats someone else up, to teach him a lesson - this is also a direct attack on the state itself, the monopoly on violence. But "large scale"? This old man with his crude tools and bad 1 dollar notes? "The press adored him and the public sympathized with him. " That is probably the bit, that got them engaged. Cannot have this set as an example that works out for someone.

denkmoon 5mo ago
> this is also a direct attack on the state itself, the monopoly on violence. not quite, the state monopolises _legitimate_ violence. it delegitimises the violence of individuals by making assault etc illegal.
- hx8 5mo ago
  I don't fully understand how this isn't a monopoly on violence.
- bombcar 5mo ago
  Saying “the state has a monopoly on violence” is basically saying the state is a state. I’m not sure it ever really provides much real insight.

eru 5mo ago

> The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself. Which is pretty ironic, given that the state need not be involved in providing physical cash at all.