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> 10 years went by and the search for Mister 880 turned into the largest and most expensive counterfeit investigation in Secret Service history. The article do

> 10 years went by and the search for Mister 880 turned into the largest and most expensive counterfeit investigation in Secret Service history. The article doesn't explain why the Secret Service made this their biggest case, and it doesn't make much sense to me. If the dollars were accepted by the general population, it would cause an infinitesimal increase in inflation of no consequence to others. And if shopkeepers wised up to the false dollars and rejected them, at worst he was defrauding the public by a few hundred dollars a year. In either eventuality, surely the Secret Service had more notorious counterfeiters to track down?

noduerme 5mo ago
Maybe it's just that any investigation that takes 10 years is by definition one of the more expensive ones.
gradschool 5mo ago
A small leak can sink a ship. The fake dollars weren't knowingly accepted. If public confidence in the value of money is lost, we're all in big trouble. The Secret Service was right to pursue the case zealously.
- HarHarVeryFunny 5mo ago
  I think the public take a pretty pragmatic view on this and don't care as long as they are not losing money on it. A few years ago it was estimated that 3% or so of the 1 pound coins in the UK were fake (there is now a more secure coin type); AFAIK the quality was pretty good, so they weren't glaringly obvious, and it seems no-one really cared - if the supermarket or pub would accept it, then it's effectively money, right?
  - dataflow 5mo ago
    > if the supermarket or pub would accept it, then it's effectively money, right? Only long as you both accept the same shared understanding of what it is. If one of you believes it's counterfeit and the other doesn't (whether it actually is or isn't!)... then it's not effectively money, no. For example, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't knowingly pass off a counterfeit on the basis that the supermarket would accept it.
    - HarHarVeryFunny 5mo ago
      I think it depends... if everyone else was treating the counterfeits same as genuine coins, so you're continually getting a mix in change, and no-one is rejecting them when you pass them on, then I think most people would just do the same. If you are not going to get in trouble by spending one (assuming you even noticed in the first place - probably not), and can be pretty much 100% assured it'll be accepted, then it'd be a bit perverse to squint at every coin you handle. Fiat currency has no inherent value - it's just a system of communal acceptance. If everyone accepts the fake coins then they ARE money. As you note, the system only breaks down if some people stop accepting it. It'd be interesting if someone from the UK could chime in: Were you aware of all the fake pounds circulating (1 in 30!) ? Did you notice if you got one? Did you care?
      - dataflow 5mo ago
        > I think it depends... if everyone else was treating the counterfeits same as genuine coins, so you're continually getting a mix in change, and no-one is rejecting them when you pass them on, then I think most people would just do the same. I think you're directly affirming this: it's fine as long as you both accept the same shared understanding of what it is.
  - graemep 5mo ago
    £1 coins are a small proportion of the value of cash in circulation and cash is a small proportion of the money supply. Coins are easier to counterfeit than notes so even if other coins have similar rates of counterfeits its a small problem in context.
- gosub100 5mo ago
  exactly, plus punishment also acts as a deterrent.
tux3 5mo ago
The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself. The US secret service was originally created specifically to combat counterfeit money, it's no surprise that they would keep tracking this man for a decade. This man is unusual because he did the tiniest amount of one the most severely punished crime.
- cenamus 5mo ago
  Also a fascinating read: The Nazi counterfeiting operation, intended to devalue the Pound and crash the British economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard
  - gosub100 5mo ago
    north korea has been doing it against the US for decades. they are better at printing our currency than we are.
    - cenamus 5mo ago
      I suppose mostly to fund their "ventures"?
- intrasight 5mo ago
  I have two "counterfeiting" stories - both of which are humorous even though one involve the Secret Service. The first was in college. A buddy of mine scribbled a facsimile of a $20 onto a piece of paper with a green marker. He then handed it to the checkout clerk at the cafeteria who took it and started to hand them back change. He stopped her and said "no, no it's a joke - look at what I just handed you". She was embarrassed but they both laughed together. The second story which does involve the Secret Service is when my friend had a bunch of presents that he had wrapped and put in his front porch until was going to depart for a party. One of the presents was wrapped in a sheet of uncut dollar bills - which you could buy for that purpose. A neppy neighbor saw it through the window and called the police who called the FBI who called the Secret Service who came knocking on his door to investigate. They were also embarrassed but I don't think they laughed. My friend told him he understands that they're just doing their job and that it's an important one.
ImPostingOnHN 5mo ago
> If the dollars were accepted by the general population, it would cause an infinitesimal increase in inflation of no consequence to others. That would depend on how many counterfeit dollars were out there, which the authorities did not know at that point of the investigation
latexr 5mo ago
We have the benefit of hindsight. The Secret Service couldn’t know the true scale of the operation, how many fake bills were in circulation, and that they were only singles.
Salgat 5mo ago
To set an example, as a deterrent to larger operations. If they go after even the smallest impact counterfeiters, it leaves no room for a plausible level at which an operation can safely run under, no matter how small.

noduerme 5mo ago

Maybe it's just that any investigation that takes 10 years is by definition one of the more expensive ones.

gradschool 5mo ago

A small leak can sink a ship. The fake dollars weren't knowingly accepted. If public confidence in the value of money is lost, we're all in big trouble. The Secret Service was right to pursue the case zealously.

HarHarVeryFunny 5mo ago
I think the public take a pretty pragmatic view on this and don't care as long as they are not losing money on it. A few years ago it was estimated that 3% or so of the 1 pound coins in the UK were fake (there is now a more secure coin type); AFAIK the quality was pretty good, so they weren't glaringly obvious, and it seems no-one really cared - if the supermarket or pub would accept it, then it's effectively money, right?
- dataflow 5mo ago
  > if the supermarket or pub would accept it, then it's effectively money, right? Only long as you both accept the same shared understanding of what it is. If one of you believes it's counterfeit and the other doesn't (whether it actually is or isn't!)... then it's not effectively money, no. For example, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell wouldn't knowingly pass off a counterfeit on the basis that the supermarket would accept it.
  - HarHarVeryFunny 5mo ago
    I think it depends... if everyone else was treating the counterfeits same as genuine coins, so you're continually getting a mix in change, and no-one is rejecting them when you pass them on, then I think most people would just do the same. If you are not going to get in trouble by spending one (assuming you even noticed in the first place - probably not), and can be pretty much 100% assured it'll be accepted, then it'd be a bit perverse to squint at every coin you handle. Fiat currency has no inherent value - it's just a system of communal acceptance. If everyone accepts the fake coins then they ARE money. As you note, the system only breaks down if some people stop accepting it. It'd be interesting if someone from the UK could chime in: Were you aware of all the fake pounds circulating (1 in 30!) ? Did you notice if you got one? Did you care?
    - dataflow 5mo ago
      > I think it depends... if everyone else was treating the counterfeits same as genuine coins, so you're continually getting a mix in change, and no-one is rejecting them when you pass them on, then I think most people would just do the same. I think you're directly affirming this: it's fine as long as you both accept the same shared understanding of what it is.
- graemep 5mo ago
  £1 coins are a small proportion of the value of cash in circulation and cash is a small proportion of the money supply. Coins are easier to counterfeit than notes so even if other coins have similar rates of counterfeits its a small problem in context.
gosub100 5mo ago
exactly, plus punishment also acts as a deterrent.

tux3 5mo ago

The state reserves some of the harshest punishments for counterfeiters, since large scale counterfeit operations is one of the few crimes that is an attack on the state itself. The US secret service was originally created specifically to combat counterfeit money, it's no surprise that they would keep tracking this man for a decade. This man is unusual because he did the tiniest amount of one the most severely punished crime.

cenamus 5mo ago
Also a fascinating read: The Nazi counterfeiting operation, intended to devalue the Pound and crash the British economy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bernhard
- gosub100 5mo ago
  north korea has been doing it against the US for decades. they are better at printing our currency than we are.
  - cenamus 5mo ago
    I suppose mostly to fund their "ventures"?
intrasight 5mo ago
I have two "counterfeiting" stories - both of which are humorous even though one involve the Secret Service. The first was in college. A buddy of mine scribbled a facsimile of a $20 onto a piece of paper with a green marker. He then handed it to the checkout clerk at the cafeteria who took it and started to hand them back change. He stopped her and said "no, no it's a joke - look at what I just handed you". She was embarrassed but they both laughed together. The second story which does involve the Secret Service is when my friend had a bunch of presents that he had wrapped and put in his front porch until was going to depart for a party. One of the presents was wrapped in a sheet of uncut dollar bills - which you could buy for that purpose. A neppy neighbor saw it through the window and called the police who called the FBI who called the Secret Service who came knocking on his door to investigate. They were also embarrassed but I don't think they laughed. My friend told him he understands that they're just doing their job and that it's an important one.

ImPostingOnHN 5mo ago

> If the dollars were accepted by the general population, it would cause an infinitesimal increase in inflation of no consequence to others. That would depend on how many counterfeit dollars were out there, which the authorities did not know at that point of the investigation

latexr 5mo ago

We have the benefit of hindsight. The Secret Service couldn’t know the true scale of the operation, how many fake bills were in circulation, and that they were only singles.

Salgat 5mo ago

To set an example, as a deterrent to larger operations. If they go after even the smallest impact counterfeiters, it leaves no room for a plausible level at which an operation can safely run under, no matter how small.