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I don’t think it is as simple as saying browsers are working for the web developer and advertisers. All the features that allow web sites and ad companies to t

I don’t think it is as simple as saying browsers are working for the web developer and advertisers. All the features that allow web sites and ad companies to track and target ads are features that are primarily there to give functionality that makes the web a better experience for users. JavaScript allows websites that are better experiences than not having it. I know some people disagree, but I think they are either intentionally ignoring useful things or have a purity view of the web that doesn’t match most people.

Obscurity4340 5mo ago
They dont need to collect your accelerometers information of your irl movements or your devices' automatic time zone stuff i dont think. That basically gives away you're using a VPN and makes it easier to fingerprint you
ryandrake 5mo ago
I guess what I'm advocating for is that it should not be all-or-nothing, and it should not default-on: Most web sites have no business knowing my time zone. Why are browsers offering it up? That should be gated on the user's permission. Most web sites should not be able to determine what my screen resolution is, or what my operating system is. Browsers should also hold that back and only disclose it with the user's permission. Most web sites should not by default have access to all the shit JS gives them access to. Battery Status, Web Audio, WebGL, Sensors, WebRTC, Geolocation, media devices (camera and mic), clipboard, local storage... All of these have uses, but should be behind individual, easy to access per-website preferences, and by default the site shouldn't even be able to query for their existence (which is enough to fingerprint), let alone call them. I shouldn't have to blanket turn off JavaScript to kill these things. All a website needs to know about me, my browser, or my computing environment is I want to "GET /".
- reddalo 5mo ago
  > Most web sites have no business knowing my time zone. That would work if websites only displayed dates in UTC. Which is not what most people expect. Browsers need to know your timezone so timestamps can displayed with the right setting for you.
  - ryandrake 5mo ago
    Ideally, the user would decide whether to display UTC or local time, based on their system or browser's preference, the web site would just send UTC or an opaque datetime object, and the browser would render it in the user's preferred date/time format.
- cortesoft 5mo ago
  There are browsers that offer that level of control, but most people don't want to use them because they are confusing and don't offer the things most people actually care about.

Obscurity4340 5mo ago

They dont need to collect your accelerometers information of your irl movements or your devices' automatic time zone stuff i dont think. That basically gives away you're using a VPN and makes it easier to fingerprint you

ryandrake 5mo ago

I guess what I'm advocating for is that it should not be all-or-nothing, and it should not default-on: Most web sites have no business knowing my time zone. Why are browsers offering it up? That should be gated on the user's permission. Most web sites should not be able to determine what my screen resolution is, or what my operating system is. Browsers should also hold that back and only disclose it with the user's permission. Most web sites should not by default have access to all the shit JS gives them access to. Battery Status, Web Audio, WebGL, Sensors, WebRTC, Geolocation, media devices (camera and mic), clipboard, local storage... All of these have uses, but should be behind individual, easy to access per-website preferences, and by default the site shouldn't even be able to query for their existence (which is enough to fingerprint), let alone call them. I shouldn't have to blanket turn off JavaScript to kill these things. All a website needs to know about me, my browser, or my computing environment is I want to "GET /".

reddalo 5mo ago
> Most web sites have no business knowing my time zone. That would work if websites only displayed dates in UTC. Which is not what most people expect. Browsers need to know your timezone so timestamps can displayed with the right setting for you.
- ryandrake 5mo ago
  Ideally, the user would decide whether to display UTC or local time, based on their system or browser's preference, the web site would just send UTC or an opaque datetime object, and the browser would render it in the user's preferred date/time format.
cortesoft 5mo ago
There are browsers that offer that level of control, but most people don't want to use them because they are confusing and don't offer the things most people actually care about.