4 ms·

>I have family in Poland, they are from smaller villages and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy Ah, the Polish MAGA. Probably Russian-influenced as

by alterom 5mo ago

>I have family in Poland, they are from smaller villages and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy Ah, the Polish MAGA. Probably Russian-influenced as well.

Leonard_of_Q 5mo ago
[flagged]
- scotty79 5mo ago
  No, he's right. It's not republican vs democrat. It's about people who weren't lucky enough (and word lucky does a lot of work here) to feel the benefits of the progressive policies. People who are easily captured by populist grifters, using simplest scaremongering tactics that russian propaganda happily manufactures and disseminates in the West. In US it stopped being republicans vs democrats many years ago. They just didn't throw away the old labels.
  - alterom 5mo ago
    Dziękuję bardzo! Ale oni i tak nic nie przeczytają :(
    - Leonard_of_Q 5mo ago
      Två kan spela samma spel, frågan är vem det nu är som läser eller lyssnar och vem inte gör det. Det hjälper inte heller att kalla allt som inte passar åsiktskorridoren som 'extremhöger' eller amerikanska versionen av samma konceptet, inte heller att peka fingret mot påstådda 'fienden' och kalla honom för ryssvänlig. Also, let's speak English here so everyone understands what we're talking about. Ja nje omje moviez po Polsku (I probably butchered the spelling but you get my drift). Ja nje gawarje pa roesskie either but English I can do pretty well.
      - alterom 5mo ago
        >Två kan spela samma spel, frågan är vem det nu är som läser eller lyssnar och vem inte gör det. Det hjälper inte heller att kalla allt som inte passar åsiktskorridoren som 'extremhöger' eller amerikanska versionen av samma konceptet, inte heller att peka fingret mot påstådda 'fienden' och kalla honom för ryssvänlig. >Also, let's speak English here so everyone understands what we're talking about. Ja nje omje moviez po Polsku (I probably butchered the spelling but you get my drift). Ja nje gawarje pa roesskie either but English I can do pretty well. The funny thing here is that if one skips the non-English part of your comment, they don't miss anything of substance that applies to this discussion. I'm not "playing games", and I've stated the facts in my longer comment. Please respond there if you have opinions, and please quote the parts you're not agreeing with, because here you seem to be arguing with points nobody in this conversation made. In any case, I'm happy for you in Sweden (I presume), where, unlike the people you're attempting to correct, you are not directly affected by either MAGA in the US or the Polish equivalent. I'm guessing that nobody ever called you a kurwa when they heard you speak, or threatened to beat you up in public for looking too queer, so you can still have enlightened opinions about American and Polish "conservatives" without ever having to interact with them. I'm sorry you were triggered by seeing the word "MAGA" to the extent that you felt the need to tell me to stop talking. Sadly, in a discussion about Poland and the anti-EU sentiment there, MAGA is very much relevant. I accept your non-apology in all the languages you don't speak, and I'm glad that you have a sufficient command of the English language to participate in this discussion. Nice Swedish too though. Have you been studying it for a while? Since we are discussing Poland, knowing a bit of Polish to understand the context would have been useful. Unfortunately, the Swedish language plays very little role in the geopolitical situation we're discussing, and won't help you understand either MAGA or PiS supporters. Speaking of understanding, I'm curious about your basis for understanding American, Polish, and Russian politics, given that you don't appear to have any lived experience, direct exposure, or command of the languages (aside from English, presumably). I surely hope your knowledge of the US politics is sourced from more than Hacker News and media personalities like John Oliver. In any case, thank you again for trying to say something that another person might find valuable, and I wish you luck in your next attempt. Skol.
- postsantum 5mo ago
  [flagged]
  - alterom 5mo ago
    >Many americans suffer from this I'm a Ukrainian-American who's lived in Ukraine, Poland, and the US; have property/bank accounts in all three countries, and speak three languages and Russian. The "Americans suffering from this" would be people saying what you just did. Please read my other comment up the thread where I provide more context. And please don't presume you have any idea on how others view the world. >The only other point of reference is Hitler and his modern reincarnation - russians Sure, let's just ignore the Muller's report which documents Russian collusion when discussing MAGA, let's ignore Russian invasion of Ukraine when discussing Poland, and let's ignore Russia's relationship with Orban, Fico, and PiS when discussing the anti-EU sentiment in the EU (particularly among rural voters). That will surely give us an enlightened, non-US-centric and non-myopic view. /s
    - postsantum 5mo ago
      [flagged]
      - alterom 5mo ago
        >This is so debunked that I consider other opinions held by you as a sign they are wrong as well "So debunked" by whom exactly? Please cite which parts of this report[1] you believe are false. Insofar as this discussion is concerned, I'll defer to the Cato institute, a conservative think tank. Quote: "Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere, Trump was aware of the interference, he benefited from and encouraged the interference – e.g., Don, Jr. was eager to get and use information on Hillary Clinton – and he didn’t report the interference to the FBI. " That's the part pertinent to this discussion. Namely, that Russia did help MAGA in the US grow, and there's documented evidence of that. Russia's influence on rural Polish conservatives in stoking the anti-Ukrainian and anti-EU sentiment, and their open meddling in the politics of EU countries supporting MAGA-like sentiments in Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland, is similarly well-documented. I'm sorry that you appear to be triggered by seeing a reference to Muller's report. The points I'm making still stand though, and I hope you'll find the strength to comprehend them in spite of your reflexes. Thank you in advance. [1] https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf [2] https://www.cato.org/blog/mueller-report-faqs https://www.cato.org/blog/mueller-report-faqs
- alterom 5mo ago
  >Ehhh, because only MAGA complains No. Because Russia has specifically invested in propaganda efforts influencing rural voters in Poland to support Polish far-right parties (and PiS), using it to foster anti-EU and anti-Ukraine sentiment. The Polish farmers blocking the border checkpoints used for delivery of military aid to Ukraine a few years ago as "ptotest" was a mirror image tactic of the Canadian conservative truckers blocking the roads. Russian investment and collusion with conservative and authoritarian movements worldwide — and MAGA in particular — is well-documented. I welcome you to read Mueller's report. >Don't politicise where it is not applicable Don't tell me what to do. You're out of your depth here to determine what's applicable, and what isn't. >this has nothing to do with the cat fight between 'democrats' and republicans It has everything to do with the geopolitics and the war taking place in Ukraine, in which both Poland and the US hold a stake (and are both targeted by Russian influence campaigns on that dimension). Not the "cat fight". The real war. Look, I'm a Ukrainian-American who went to Ukraine during the war (spent a month in Kyiv in 2023), and lived in Poland for about a year. I speak Ukrainian, Russian, and English at native proficiency, and I know enough Polish to be renting an apartment there, owning a car, etc. Russian disinformation campaigns are my special interest. I can tell you a lot about Surkov's postmodern Firehose-of-Falsehood machinery, Gerasimov's hybrid war doctrine, and how it was instrumental in the 2014 invasion of Ukraine as well as 2016 US election meddling and the rise of MAGA. I can direct you to RAND and RUSI studies, books and articles by Pomerantsev, Applebaum, Gessen, which will give you a wider look into Russia's hand in the right-wing "conservative" voices across the world and in the EU in particular (Orban in Hungary, Fico in Slovakia, AfD in Germany, and PiS supporters in Poland). But you really won't learn anything if you insist on projecting your myopic US-centric attitude that purports that MAGA is a dem-vs-not-dem "cat fight". I'm happy that you get to live in a world where you can avoid "politicizing" politics. Out in the real world, complaining about the EU while living in a EU country whose economy was lifted from shambles by the EU is inherently a political issue. And it's not coincidentally similar to MAGA supporters e.g. rallying against Obamacare only to discover that they literally depend on it for survival, and in general, voting against Democrats while benefitting from and depending on the policies that Democrats established. And it's not coincidental that the Polish anti-EU rural voters are sharing the anti-immigration, "they took our jobs" sentiment with MAGA even as immigration provided an immense boost to both the US and Polish economy. Ukrainians number in millions in Poland because of the war; MAGA's anti-Mexican sentiment maps 1:1 to anti-Ukrainian sentiment in Poland — specifically because Russian information warfare efforts help fuel both (it's a literal industry in Russia, with infamous St. Petersburg human-staffed "bot farms" being well exposed by now). I'm not saying that all MAGA is like that, but there is a sufficiently big overlap (and a sufficient amount of evidence) that me saying that those rural anti-EU folks are Polish MAGA has a lot more weight than you are realizing. As other commenters have pointed out, by the way. So, if I may: please revert your downvote and learn. Thank you for your attention to this matter.

by alterom 5mo ago

>I have family in Poland, they are from smaller villages and they ALWAYS complain about EU and the economy Ah, the Polish MAGA. Probably Russian-influenced as well.

Leonard_of_Q 5mo ago

[flagged]

scotty79 5mo ago
No, he's right. It's not republican vs democrat. It's about people who weren't lucky enough (and word lucky does a lot of work here) to feel the benefits of the progressive policies. People who are easily captured by populist grifters, using simplest scaremongering tactics that russian propaganda happily manufactures and disseminates in the West. In US it stopped being republicans vs democrats many years ago. They just didn't throw away the old labels.
- alterom 5mo ago
  Dziękuję bardzo! Ale oni i tak nic nie przeczytają :(
  - Leonard_of_Q 5mo ago
    Två kan spela samma spel, frågan är vem det nu är som läser eller lyssnar och vem inte gör det. Det hjälper inte heller att kalla allt som inte passar åsiktskorridoren som 'extremhöger' eller amerikanska versionen av samma konceptet, inte heller att peka fingret mot påstådda 'fienden' och kalla honom för ryssvänlig. Also, let's speak English here so everyone understands what we're talking about. Ja nje omje moviez po Polsku (I probably butchered the spelling but you get my drift). Ja nje gawarje pa roesskie either but English I can do pretty well.
    - alterom 5mo ago
      >Två kan spela samma spel, frågan är vem det nu är som läser eller lyssnar och vem inte gör det. Det hjälper inte heller att kalla allt som inte passar åsiktskorridoren som 'extremhöger' eller amerikanska versionen av samma konceptet, inte heller att peka fingret mot påstådda 'fienden' och kalla honom för ryssvänlig. >Also, let's speak English here so everyone understands what we're talking about. Ja nje omje moviez po Polsku (I probably butchered the spelling but you get my drift). Ja nje gawarje pa roesskie either but English I can do pretty well. The funny thing here is that if one skips the non-English part of your comment, they don't miss anything of substance that applies to this discussion. I'm not "playing games", and I've stated the facts in my longer comment. Please respond there if you have opinions, and please quote the parts you're not agreeing with, because here you seem to be arguing with points nobody in this conversation made. In any case, I'm happy for you in Sweden (I presume), where, unlike the people you're attempting to correct, you are not directly affected by either MAGA in the US or the Polish equivalent. I'm guessing that nobody ever called you a kurwa when they heard you speak, or threatened to beat you up in public for looking too queer, so you can still have enlightened opinions about American and Polish "conservatives" without ever having to interact with them. I'm sorry you were triggered by seeing the word "MAGA" to the extent that you felt the need to tell me to stop talking. Sadly, in a discussion about Poland and the anti-EU sentiment there, MAGA is very much relevant. I accept your non-apology in all the languages you don't speak, and I'm glad that you have a sufficient command of the English language to participate in this discussion. Nice Swedish too though. Have you been studying it for a while? Since we are discussing Poland, knowing a bit of Polish to understand the context would have been useful. Unfortunately, the Swedish language plays very little role in the geopolitical situation we're discussing, and won't help you understand either MAGA or PiS supporters. Speaking of understanding, I'm curious about your basis for understanding American, Polish, and Russian politics, given that you don't appear to have any lived experience, direct exposure, or command of the languages (aside from English, presumably). I surely hope your knowledge of the US politics is sourced from more than Hacker News and media personalities like John Oliver. In any case, thank you again for trying to say something that another person might find valuable, and I wish you luck in your next attempt. Skol.
postsantum 5mo ago
[flagged]
- alterom 5mo ago
  >Many americans suffer from this I'm a Ukrainian-American who's lived in Ukraine, Poland, and the US; have property/bank accounts in all three countries, and speak three languages and Russian. The "Americans suffering from this" would be people saying what you just did. Please read my other comment up the thread where I provide more context. And please don't presume you have any idea on how others view the world. >The only other point of reference is Hitler and his modern reincarnation - russians Sure, let's just ignore the Muller's report which documents Russian collusion when discussing MAGA, let's ignore Russian invasion of Ukraine when discussing Poland, and let's ignore Russia's relationship with Orban, Fico, and PiS when discussing the anti-EU sentiment in the EU (particularly among rural voters). That will surely give us an enlightened, non-US-centric and non-myopic view. /s
  - postsantum 5mo ago
    [flagged]
    - alterom 5mo ago
      >This is so debunked that I consider other opinions held by you as a sign they are wrong as well "So debunked" by whom exactly? Please cite which parts of this report[1] you believe are false. Insofar as this discussion is concerned, I'll defer to the Cato institute, a conservative think tank. Quote: "Mueller concluded that the Russians did interfere, Trump was aware of the interference, he benefited from and encouraged the interference – e.g., Don, Jr. was eager to get and use information on Hillary Clinton – and he didn’t report the interference to the FBI. " That's the part pertinent to this discussion. Namely, that Russia did help MAGA in the US grow, and there's documented evidence of that. Russia's influence on rural Polish conservatives in stoking the anti-Ukrainian and anti-EU sentiment, and their open meddling in the politics of EU countries supporting MAGA-like sentiments in Hungary, Slovakia, and Poland, is similarly well-documented. I'm sorry that you appear to be triggered by seeing a reference to Muller's report. The points I'm making still stand though, and I hope you'll find the strength to comprehend them in spite of your reflexes. Thank you in advance. [1] https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf https://www.justice.gov/storage/report_volume2.pdf [2] https://www.cato.org/blog/mueller-report-faqs https://www.cato.org/blog/mueller-report-faqs
alterom 5mo ago
>Ehhh, because only MAGA complains No. Because Russia has specifically invested in propaganda efforts influencing rural voters in Poland to support Polish far-right parties (and PiS), using it to foster anti-EU and anti-Ukraine sentiment. The Polish farmers blocking the border checkpoints used for delivery of military aid to Ukraine a few years ago as "ptotest" was a mirror image tactic of the Canadian conservative truckers blocking the roads. Russian investment and collusion with conservative and authoritarian movements worldwide — and MAGA in particular — is well-documented. I welcome you to read Mueller's report. >Don't politicise where it is not applicable Don't tell me what to do. You're out of your depth here to determine what's applicable, and what isn't. >this has nothing to do with the cat fight between 'democrats' and republicans It has everything to do with the geopolitics and the war taking place in Ukraine, in which both Poland and the US hold a stake (and are both targeted by Russian influence campaigns on that dimension). Not the "cat fight". The real war. Look, I'm a Ukrainian-American who went to Ukraine during the war (spent a month in Kyiv in 2023), and lived in Poland for about a year. I speak Ukrainian, Russian, and English at native proficiency, and I know enough Polish to be renting an apartment there, owning a car, etc. Russian disinformation campaigns are my special interest. I can tell you a lot about Surkov's postmodern Firehose-of-Falsehood machinery, Gerasimov's hybrid war doctrine, and how it was instrumental in the 2014 invasion of Ukraine as well as 2016 US election meddling and the rise of MAGA. I can direct you to RAND and RUSI studies, books and articles by Pomerantsev, Applebaum, Gessen, which will give you a wider look into Russia's hand in the right-wing "conservative" voices across the world and in the EU in particular (Orban in Hungary, Fico in Slovakia, AfD in Germany, and PiS supporters in Poland). But you really won't learn anything if you insist on projecting your myopic US-centric attitude that purports that MAGA is a dem-vs-not-dem "cat fight". I'm happy that you get to live in a world where you can avoid "politicizing" politics. Out in the real world, complaining about the EU while living in a EU country whose economy was lifted from shambles by the EU is inherently a political issue. And it's not coincidentally similar to MAGA supporters e.g. rallying against Obamacare only to discover that they literally depend on it for survival, and in general, voting against Democrats while benefitting from and depending on the policies that Democrats established. And it's not coincidental that the Polish anti-EU rural voters are sharing the anti-immigration, "they took our jobs" sentiment with MAGA even as immigration provided an immense boost to both the US and Polish economy. Ukrainians number in millions in Poland because of the war; MAGA's anti-Mexican sentiment maps 1:1 to anti-Ukrainian sentiment in Poland — specifically because Russian information warfare efforts help fuel both (it's a literal industry in Russia, with infamous St. Petersburg human-staffed "bot farms" being well exposed by now). I'm not saying that all MAGA is like that, but there is a sufficiently big overlap (and a sufficient amount of evidence) that me saying that those rural anti-EU folks are Polish MAGA has a lot more weight than you are realizing. As other commenters have pointed out, by the way. So, if I may: please revert your downvote and learn. Thank you for your attention to this matter.