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Yes, this is how European social welfare works. And it is fantastic! Because the entirety of the EU is benefitting from it. Polish people have larger spending p
by tossandthrow 5mo ago
Yes, this is how European social welfare works. And it is fantastic! Because the entirety of the EU is benefitting from it. Polish people have larger spending power, interesting and safe places to visit, etc.
This is not a "present" given to Poland. This is ensuring a better life for all Europeans.
- pavlov 5mo agoIn the 1980s, EU money was flowing to Spain, Portugal and Greece. And people complained about that too. But the result is inarguably positive. Those countries had only recently become democracies after decades of military dictatorships or otherwise unstable third-world style governments. Today they're the most dynamic economies in the EU in many respects, and their democracies are well established and functioning. The EU doesn't get nearly enough credit for how it transformed the continent. People have forgotten how nearly all European countries were in a very bad shape after WWII. Fascists had remained in power in Spain and Portugal. Soviets were orchestrating communist takeovers in countries like Italy. It's a small miracle that the liberal democratic economic order won so quickly and decisively.
- kspacewalk2 5mo agoI think this is the hidden reason why the American alt-right/far-right/MAGA/techbro types hate the EU with so much apoplectic rage. For all its problems, big-picture-like it actually works to gradually coalesce a huge rich continent with a bigger population than the US into something increasingly more coherent, and if it continues to work it will mean that the Western world now has two heavyweight leaders, not one. For people who tend to view the world as a giant zero-sum dominance competition, this is of course a big threat. One more big player = one more competitor. (The techbros hate it for a different, if related, reason - they aren't nearly as successful at capturing regulators, astroturfing and controlling discourse, and otherwise taking charge of that second entity as they are with the hapless US federal government).
- TitaRusell 5mo agoEurope is the birthplace of democracy, socialism, feminism and secularism. Ofcourse Christ conservatives hate it.
- Jensson 5mo agoAnd remember Christianity come from the middle east.
- kspacewalk2 5mo agoJesus would have foreseen the blockage of the Strait of Hormuz before launching a war of choice on the Persians.
- truthaboutpl 5mo agoGood thing we are a Democratic Republic :)
- pavlov 5mo agoAll non-monarchies in Europe are republics too. It’s by far the most common type of democracy. It’s unclear to me why some Americans insist on making a distinction that doesn’t exist.
- roenxi 5mo ago> (The techbros hate it for a different, if related, reason - they aren't nearly as successful at capturing regulators, astroturfing and controlling discourse, and otherwise taking charge of that second entity as they are with the hapless US federal government). I'd propose a different reason - the techbros disassociate with the EU because if someone want to work in tech that means getting fairly intimate with US culture, companies and markets. There is a reason this conversation is happening on a message board backed by a US company (moderated to US standards, I might add) - the Europeans don't have the ecosystem to sustain something similar. If Europe were capable of building the ecosystems needed to fielding a large number of competent tech companies then techbros would start turning up there too.
- eowln 5mo ago[flagged]
- dnnddidiej 5mo agoWhat... are you really belittling democracy
- eowln 5mo agoThat’s not what I said. I said there are more important things to increase the wellbeing of the citizens of a country than democracy. In other words, a country can use democracy as a tool to destroy itself.
- wussboy 5mo agoMaybe. But I don't think you will find any of those things without strong democracy.
- purpleflame1257 5mo agoCounterpoint: China from Deng and onwards is an autocracy with rapidly improving material conditions
- iknowstuff 5mo agoIts population will halve this century thanks to their autocratic policies so we’ll see how that unfolds
- tw1984 5mo agowhich things? care to be more specific?
- unmole 5mo agoSingapore says hi.
- TacticalCoder 5mo ago[flagged]
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- flir 5mo agoI'm getting strong H. P. Lovecraft vibes here. Just so you know.
- pavlov 5mo agoI’m not interested in debating the anti-Islam diatribe. If your lived experience is that “bearded men and veiled women” have destroyed the halcyon paradise of your childhood, then that’s fundamentally a nostalgia-based emotional argument. But I’ll clarify that I wrote that Spain, Portugal and Greece specifically have become dynamic economies in the context of the EU. Spain has grown at a consistent 3% for a decade. Of course the far-right argues that it’s the wrong kind of growth because it’s fueled by immigration (backwards-looking political movements prefer zero growth and a shrinking population if it means less people of the color they don’t like).
- deleted 5mo ago[deleted]
- indiangenz 5mo agoThe bearded men have increased the crime rates in Spain, France, UK, Germany, Sweden etc. This is crystal clear if you look up statistics. Just in the last week there was a Aloha Snack Bar stabbing in Barcelona. Poland has low crime rates specifically because they have strict border controls. You are free to personally visit Brussels to see what a shit hole it is.
- iknowstuff 5mo agoExactly how do you believe their borders are more strict given that they’re in Schengen? And how is the EU to blame for Belgium’s immigration policies but not Poland’s?
- logicchains 5mo ago>Today they're the most dynamic economies in the EU in many respects In what sense are they "dynamic economies"? Their GDP per capita has barely increased at all over the past two decades, they're mired in debt, and haven't produced a single new company that's significant on the global stage.
- emigre 5mo agoInditex, Mercadona, Movistar?...
- a_humean 5mo agoSpain is currently the fastest growing state in Europe, is the largest source new job creation in Europe, and is currently benefiting from its large scale investments in renewables and grid infrastructure sheltering it from the worst of the Iran war.
- nunobrito 5mo agoThat is incorrect for Portugal. We didn't took part on the WWII and came out with a rich country that kept growing on double-digits. Eventually it was attacked simultaneouly by the US/Russia proxies for 10 years until 1974. It was after that US/Russia sponsored this communist takeover of our country that the new puppet governments have thrown the natives into extreme misery until someone from the EU decided to reduce the levels of corruption and misery. We simply swapped one master for another and hasn't been good for our land. So please don't compare our country to whatever "solutions" brought by the same entities who caused our problems in the first place. We needed almost 50 years to remove socialism from this country and reduce the venezuelan/cuban style poverty forced upon us.
- myth_drannon 5mo agoSpain is often given as an example of a failed economy ruined by socialists. GDP per capita is basically flat over the last 2 decades, $30K. https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spain/gdp-per-capita https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/esp/spa... vs Poland that tripled or let's say Israel that had the same GDP as Spain and now has double.
- the_why_of_y 5mo agoWhat happened in Spain is that they joined the Euro currency, and this caused a massive boom from 2001-2007 where GDP more than doubled in only 6 years. This was mostly fueled by capital transfers from other Eurozone countries, seeking higher returns than in their home country. Of course this rate of growth proved unsustainable: in 2008 the (Spanish) real estate bubble burst and this caused bank bail outs, massive unemployment (rates around 25%), and put an end to GDP growth for many years, exacerbated by the fact that Spain did no longer have its own currency to devalue in order to regain international competitiveness. At the time the bubble burst, government debt in Spain was at a bit more than 40% GDP, with a budget surplus, far lower than for example the "responsible" Germany at more than 60%. Now what does any of that have to do with "socialists"? If anything, it's a cautionary tale about badly designed currency zones and financial markets misallocating capital.
- Vaslo 5mo agoSo you’re taking from others who earned it and give it someone that didn’t? Got it.
- smallnix 5mo agoYes, in the EU they call it 'sharing'
- Vaslo 5mo agoOk, in the US we call this stealing. My bad.
- shimman 5mo agoThis is what capitalists literally do with workers. It's not like capitalists are creating anything valuable, they're just leeches extracting wealth. I rather have workers get the money than more corporate welfare.
- andsoitis 5mo ago> It's not like capitalists are creating anything valuable, Some capitalists create enormous value, some destroy it, some are essentially passive recipients of returns generated by others. Capitalists provide real productive functions like capital allocation, risk-bearing, founding, governance, monitoring, etc.
- shimman 5mo agoNo capitalists just provide money, something other entities can as well. Often better too. Capitalists are completely useless when they have no workers, so I don't understand your points outside of "wow capitalists require a lot of workers to exist." Hence the rush towards LLM systems, the dream of perpetual labor machine is too enticing. There is also no risks for capitalists, do we live on the same planet where the stated US economic policy isn't to socialize the risks and privatize the gains?
- CodeNest 5mo ago[dead]