8 ms·

They have had good public education for the past decade or two and rank high in international student rankings. So, I would bet that high 'human capital' would

They have had good public education for the past decade or two and rank high in international student rankings. So, I would bet that high 'human capital' would be the cause here.

lo_zamoyski 5mo ago
Polish education has a long tradition of excellence. Indeed, the last decade has seen reforms that have been heavily criticized for working against that.
- lifestyleguru 5mo ago
  You mean "MBA for a fee" Collegium Tumanum, or the best elite two universities which globally barely rank somewhere in the fifth hundred? Sorry it's not education. Poles are cheap and subservient, while cutthroat among each other.
  - goralph 5mo ago
    Poland is fifth in the world with gold medals in informatics Olympiad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Info... But yeah, it’s just cause they’re cheap and subservient right.
    - lifestyleguru 5mo ago
      Romania is 6th, Iran is 8th, and your point is?
      - goralph 5mo ago
        That Romania and Iran also have strong education in STEM. Your point is these countries don’t? What point exactly are you trying to make.
        lifestyleguru 5mo ago
        Neither Poland, nor Romania or Iran are know for excellence in education. There is this specific niche in particular age group but that doesn't translate into meaningful industry or into anything really. They are relatively good at solving quizzes, that's it.
      - scotty79 5mo ago
        Romania is great and it's definitely punching above it's weight, just like Poland, just with the smaller population. Iran is 3 times larger than Poland in term of population so it's not an outlier like Poland and Romania. And the point is, you should expect best results from China and US just by population alone. South Korea at 3rd place is a testament to their grueling education. But Poland and Romania (and Bulgaria) are something else. Those are not technologically advanced countries. They don't have particular stress on education.
  - yu3zhou4 5mo ago
    Laughed hard about Collegium Tumanum
  - inglor_cz 5mo ago
    IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII, people like Banach and Tarski are remembered until today. Also, Enigma didn't get broken by Rejewski being cheap and subservient. Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. But computer programming with Polish keywords would indeed be a bit of a hell ;)
    - lo_zamoyski 5mo ago
      > IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII That's right. The Lwów-Warsaw School, the Warsaw Schools, the Kraków School, and so on were big during the interbellum. There was a good deal of activity in the space of mathematics, logic, and philosophy within that scope (art, theater, film, literature, etc. had their respective flowerings). However, what I had in mind was that education has always been important, with formal education beginning in the Middle Ages with the first cathedral/collegiate schools. And because Poland became increasingly republican in nature, demanding skillful articulation, argument, and diplomacy as a matter of statecraft, Latin culture was of such a high standard that, during the Renaissance and early modern period, foreigners would comment that they felt as though they were visting ancient Rome given the high level of Latin proficiency. I should also mention that the world's first ministry of education was founded in Poland in the 18th century during the reign of Stanislaus II Augustus, creating, among other things, the first comprehensive, state-mandated natural science curricula. During the subsequent partitions and foreign occupations when germanization and russification campaigns were inflicted on the populace and severe restrictions on the Polish language were put in place, clandestine home schooling, underground education networks, and "floating universities" allowed the culture to survive. So it has a deeply-ingrained and special importance across a range of concerns, from Scholastic libertas to senatorial virtus to cultural survival to so-called "positivist" industry. > Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. Indeed. Further evidence of this is that even under the restrictive and crippling policies of the communist state and Soviet influence, you still had a surprising amount of innovation in this space. > But computer programming with Polish keywords would indeed be a bit of a hell ;) What would really be delicious is an inflected, synthetic programming language. ;)
BeetleB 5mo ago
> They have had good public education for the past decade or two and rank high in international student rankings. I suspect good public education is a symptom, not the cause. The cause likely is valuing a good education. Culture always wins. You can give people who don't value it a good education and they'll barely benefit.
ivanjermakov 5mo ago
I suspect Ukraine and Belarus brain drain to be a measurable factor here too.
rvba 5mo ago
PIS party works to ruin it, republican style.

They have had good public education for the past decade or two and rank high in international student rankings. So, I would bet that high 'human capital' would be the cause here.

lo_zamoyski 5mo ago

Polish education has a long tradition of excellence. Indeed, the last decade has seen reforms that have been heavily criticized for working against that.

lifestyleguru 5mo ago
You mean "MBA for a fee" Collegium Tumanum, or the best elite two universities which globally barely rank somewhere in the fifth hundred? Sorry it's not education. Poles are cheap and subservient, while cutthroat among each other.
- goralph 5mo ago
  Poland is fifth in the world with gold medals in informatics Olympiad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Informatics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Olympiad_in_Info... But yeah, it’s just cause they’re cheap and subservient right.
  - lifestyleguru 5mo ago
    Romania is 6th, Iran is 8th, and your point is?
    - goralph 5mo ago
      That Romania and Iran also have strong education in STEM. Your point is these countries don’t? What point exactly are you trying to make.
      - lifestyleguru 5mo ago
        Neither Poland, nor Romania or Iran are know for excellence in education. There is this specific niche in particular age group but that doesn't translate into meaningful industry or into anything really. They are relatively good at solving quizzes, that's it.
    - scotty79 5mo ago
      Romania is great and it's definitely punching above it's weight, just like Poland, just with the smaller population. Iran is 3 times larger than Poland in term of population so it's not an outlier like Poland and Romania. And the point is, you should expect best results from China and US just by population alone. South Korea at 3rd place is a testament to their grueling education. But Poland and Romania (and Bulgaria) are something else. Those are not technologically advanced countries. They don't have particular stress on education.
- yu3zhou4 5mo ago
  Laughed hard about Collegium Tumanum
- inglor_cz 5mo ago
  IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII, people like Banach and Tarski are remembered until today. Also, Enigma didn't get broken by Rejewski being cheap and subservient. Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. But computer programming with Polish keywords would indeed be a bit of a hell ;)
  - lo_zamoyski 5mo ago
    > IIRC Polish mathematicians were close to being the world's best prior to WWII That's right. The Lwów-Warsaw School, the Warsaw Schools, the Kraków School, and so on were big during the interbellum. There was a good deal of activity in the space of mathematics, logic, and philosophy within that scope (art, theater, film, literature, etc. had their respective flowerings). However, what I had in mind was that education has always been important, with formal education beginning in the Middle Ages with the first cathedral/collegiate schools. And because Poland became increasingly republican in nature, demanding skillful articulation, argument, and diplomacy as a matter of statecraft, Latin culture was of such a high standard that, during the Renaissance and early modern period, foreigners would comment that they felt as though they were visting ancient Rome given the high level of Latin proficiency. I should also mention that the world's first ministry of education was founded in Poland in the 18th century during the reign of Stanislaus II Augustus, creating, among other things, the first comprehensive, state-mandated natural science curricula. During the subsequent partitions and foreign occupations when germanization and russification campaigns were inflicted on the populace and severe restrictions on the Polish language were put in place, clandestine home schooling, underground education networks, and "floating universities" allowed the culture to survive. So it has a deeply-ingrained and special importance across a range of concerns, from Scholastic libertas to senatorial virtus to cultural survival to so-called "positivist" industry. > Given how strong Poland used to be in mathematical logic, I can see an alternate history line where WWII does not happen and first computers are developed in Krakow and Lwow. Indeed. Further evidence of this is that even under the restrictive and crippling policies of the communist state and Soviet influence, you still had a surprising amount of innovation in this space. > But computer programming with Polish keywords would indeed be a bit of a hell ;) What would really be delicious is an inflected, synthetic programming language. ;)

BeetleB 5mo ago

> They have had good public education for the past decade or two and rank high in international student rankings. I suspect good public education is a symptom, not the cause. The cause likely is valuing a good education. Culture always wins. You can give people who don't value it a good education and they'll barely benefit.

ivanjermakov 5mo ago

I suspect Ukraine and Belarus brain drain to be a measurable factor here too.

rvba 5mo ago

PIS party works to ruin it, republican style.