3 ms·

I don't know Chapel in detail, I was more thinking Hylo. I don't think Chapel has a clear value/reference semantics or ownership/lifetime story? Am I wrong here

by Certhas 5mo ago

I don't know Chapel in detail, I was more thinking Hylo. I don't think Chapel has a clear value/reference semantics or ownership/lifetime story? Am I wrong here? The Mojo docs include two sections dedicated to these topics: https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/values/ https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/values/ https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/lifecycle/ https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/lifecycle/ The metaprogramming story seems to take inspiration from Zig, but the way comptime, parameters and ownership blend in Mojo seems relatively novel to me (as a spectator/layman): https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/metaprogramming/ https://mojolang.org/docs/manual/metaprogramming/ I was sort of paying attention to all these ideas and concepts two-three years ago from the sidelines (partially with the idea to learn how Julia could potentially evolve) but it's far from my area of expertise, I might well be getting stuff wrong.

pjmlp 5mo ago
You make use of 'owned', 'shared', 'unmanaged', 'borrowed'. https://chapel-lang.org/docs/language/spec/classes.html#class-lifetime-and-borrows https://chapel-lang.org/docs/language/spec/classes.html#clas...
- Certhas 5mo ago
  I see, seems like the design is not complete and a work in progress (which is the same for Mojos Origins concept I think): "The details of lifetime checking are not yet finalized or specified. Additional syntax to specify the lifetimes of function returns will probably be needed." I think Rust proved that lifetimes, ownership and borrow checking can be useful for a mainstream language. The discussions in the Mojo context revolve on how to improve the ergonomics of these versus Rust.
  - pjmlp 5mo ago
    Contrary to Mojo, plenty of people are using it in HPC, and is open source. https://hpsf.io/blog/2026/hpsf-project-communities-to-gather-at-hpsfcon-in-chicago/ https://hpsf.io/blog/2026/hpsf-project-communities-to-gather... https://developer.hpe.com/platform/chapel/home https://developer.hpe.com/platform/chapel/home See "Projects Powered by Chapel".
    - Certhas 5mo ago
      So? What point are you making? A different language with different design philosophy, has success in a different niche than Mojo is targeting?
      - pjmlp 5mo ago
        One is used in production already by key laboratories in HPC research, the other wants to be and is far away from being 1.0. Chapel current version is 2.8.0.
        melodyogonna 5mo ago
        Mojo isn't that far away from 1.0. Some point this year is the target
        MohamedMabrouk 5mo ago
        I don't understand this framing, so? Cpp, Julia are more widely adopted, used in HPC. it does not mean that people shouldn't start, learn new languages.
        pjmlp 5mo ago
        In the LLM age, maybe the focus should be elsewhere instead of syntax.
        MohamedMabrouk 5mo ago
        is that so? People are still reading their code to understand it and ask (or make modifications). even in the (LLM age) language design, readability is still as relevant as before. I don't see the superficial comparisons between why this new Y when we have X are not really helpful. Languages and system got adopted not for their stated goal only, but for the underlying details capabilities, good design which translates to better user experience and ecosystem growth.
        Certhas 5mo ago

by Certhas 5mo ago

pjmlp 5mo ago

You make use of 'owned', 'shared', 'unmanaged', 'borrowed'. https://chapel-lang.org/docs/language/spec/classes.html#class-lifetime-and-borrows https://chapel-lang.org/docs/language/spec/classes.html#clas...

Certhas 5mo ago
I see, seems like the design is not complete and a work in progress (which is the same for Mojos Origins concept I think): "The details of lifetime checking are not yet finalized or specified. Additional syntax to specify the lifetimes of function returns will probably be needed." I think Rust proved that lifetimes, ownership and borrow checking can be useful for a mainstream language. The discussions in the Mojo context revolve on how to improve the ergonomics of these versus Rust.
- pjmlp 5mo ago
  Contrary to Mojo, plenty of people are using it in HPC, and is open source. https://hpsf.io/blog/2026/hpsf-project-communities-to-gather-at-hpsfcon-in-chicago/ https://hpsf.io/blog/2026/hpsf-project-communities-to-gather... https://developer.hpe.com/platform/chapel/home https://developer.hpe.com/platform/chapel/home See "Projects Powered by Chapel".
  - Certhas 5mo ago
    So? What point are you making? A different language with different design philosophy, has success in a different niche than Mojo is targeting?
    - pjmlp 5mo ago
      One is used in production already by key laboratories in HPC research, the other wants to be and is far away from being 1.0. Chapel current version is 2.8.0.
      - melodyogonna 5mo ago
        Mojo isn't that far away from 1.0. Some point this year is the target
      - MohamedMabrouk 5mo ago
        I don't understand this framing, so? Cpp, Julia are more widely adopted, used in HPC. it does not mean that people shouldn't start, learn new languages.
        pjmlp 5mo ago
        In the LLM age, maybe the focus should be elsewhere instead of syntax.
        MohamedMabrouk 5mo ago
        is that so? People are still reading their code to understand it and ask (or make modifications). even in the (LLM age) language design, readability is still as relevant as before. I don't see the superficial comparisons between why this new Y when we have X are not really helpful. Languages and system got adopted not for their stated goal only, but for the underlying details capabilities, good design which translates to better user experience and ecosystem growth.
      - Certhas 5mo ago