3 ms·

It's important to remember that these stories are orignally an oral tradition that only fairly recently began to be written down. They would have had a myriad o

It's important to remember that these stories are orignally an oral tradition that only fairly recently began to be written down. They would have had a myriad of differing versions depending on the preferences of the storyteller, their community and the intended effect on specific audiences. In a way, retelling these stories in a way that's meaningful to the listeners is the way it always has been. We just have to remember that the darker versions also served a purpose of sense-making, and they can come to serve it again if we need them. Good on your partner for trying to help those kids.

ffsm8 5mo ago
Isn't that the other way around? People back then had more contact with the darker reality we live in - hence it was more relatable. Current generation of people in the west have been completely sheltered and protected by the establishment for all their life and have completely forgotten that isn't something natural. With every generation since WW2 this has gotten more pronounced, and at this point people unironically go onto the streets to demonstrate for counties with "less then clandestine governments". They cannot comprehend the reality of living as a powerless victim in a world which will callously destroy them- for no reason whatsoever - because they've been protected from it all their lives. Or maybe I'm just reading your comment wrong and you meant the same, idk
- 47282847 5mo ago
  Is that really true? I find that more and more TV series have a lot more gruesome elements in there nowadays, also ones aimed at not-only-adults like Stranger Things for example. And horror movies moved from being a niche thing to Hollywood.
  - ffsm8 5mo ago
    I guess I was too unclear with my comment... Because I can see were you're coming from. Eg. BBCs Black Mirror - which is obnoxiously turning out to be more of a prediction then a cautionary tale - is definitely in the range of "darker content" in the vain I was talking about. But the target demographic is adults. The old stories are meant to relate to you. The whole reason they were being told to very very young kids (<6yo) was to make them understand the unfairness of the world in order for them to hopefully be on guard against it when it matters. They also weren't really fantasy in nature, even if we consider them to be fantasy nowadays. And that's a big part of why a series like stranger things feels inapplicable here - unless I miss remember it's setting. Wasn't it fundamentally just entertainment? More about spectacle then actually relating to the viewer? The young adults/teenagers are both 10+ years older then the target demographic of the old tales, and won't relate the story to themselves because it's too disconnected from reality? At least that's my impression.
    - pwdisswordfishq 5mo ago
      Black Mirror was on Channel 4, not BBC.
      - ffsm8 5mo ago
        Oof, thanks for that correction. I must've mixed its producer up with Sherlocks which I watched at a similar time
  - aardvarkr 5mo ago
    If stranger things ended with everyone dead and no happy ending then sure but no, everything is fair and the heroes always win. Horror has always been mainstream fyi, it’s not a recent invention
    - sillywabbit 5mo ago
      What? Eddie and Alexei were the heroes of that story, and they got screwed.
  - smelendez 5mo ago
    I would say just the opposite. Think about all the serial killer and urban crime movies in the ‘80s and ‘90s, or the film noir of the postwar period. TV is more complicated, but cop shows like the early seasons of Law and Order and all of SVU, NYPD, and then later The Wire and The Shield were pretty gritty. Video games have always been a mix of squeaky clean Mario and Zelda and gory content: Think Doom, Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, Postal, etc.
- isityettime 5mo ago
  > Or maybe I'm just reading your comment wrong Yes, you are. Their point is orthogonal to whether people in other times or places typically have/had it worse in terms of agency, fairness, safety, etc. Their point is about the flexibility and natural variation of the original oral medium as opposed to the crystalization of written text.
ahazred8ta 5mo ago
There's a gallery of variant versions of Cinderella from different countries, even China. In many of them she has an enchanted cow. http://www.365cinderellas.com/ http://www.365cinderellas.com/

ffsm8 5mo ago

Isn't that the other way around? People back then had more contact with the darker reality we live in - hence it was more relatable. Current generation of people in the west have been completely sheltered and protected by the establishment for all their life and have completely forgotten that isn't something natural. With every generation since WW2 this has gotten more pronounced, and at this point people unironically go onto the streets to demonstrate for counties with "less then clandestine governments". They cannot comprehend the reality of living as a powerless victim in a world which will callously destroy them- for no reason whatsoever - because they've been protected from it all their lives. Or maybe I'm just reading your comment wrong and you meant the same, idk

47282847 5mo ago
Is that really true? I find that more and more TV series have a lot more gruesome elements in there nowadays, also ones aimed at not-only-adults like Stranger Things for example. And horror movies moved from being a niche thing to Hollywood.
- ffsm8 5mo ago
  I guess I was too unclear with my comment... Because I can see were you're coming from. Eg. BBCs Black Mirror - which is obnoxiously turning out to be more of a prediction then a cautionary tale - is definitely in the range of "darker content" in the vain I was talking about. But the target demographic is adults. The old stories are meant to relate to you. The whole reason they were being told to very very young kids (<6yo) was to make them understand the unfairness of the world in order for them to hopefully be on guard against it when it matters. They also weren't really fantasy in nature, even if we consider them to be fantasy nowadays. And that's a big part of why a series like stranger things feels inapplicable here - unless I miss remember it's setting. Wasn't it fundamentally just entertainment? More about spectacle then actually relating to the viewer? The young adults/teenagers are both 10+ years older then the target demographic of the old tales, and won't relate the story to themselves because it's too disconnected from reality? At least that's my impression.
  - pwdisswordfishq 5mo ago
    Black Mirror was on Channel 4, not BBC.
    - ffsm8 5mo ago
      Oof, thanks for that correction. I must've mixed its producer up with Sherlocks which I watched at a similar time
- aardvarkr 5mo ago
  If stranger things ended with everyone dead and no happy ending then sure but no, everything is fair and the heroes always win. Horror has always been mainstream fyi, it’s not a recent invention
  - sillywabbit 5mo ago
    What? Eddie and Alexei were the heroes of that story, and they got screwed.
- smelendez 5mo ago
  I would say just the opposite. Think about all the serial killer and urban crime movies in the ‘80s and ‘90s, or the film noir of the postwar period. TV is more complicated, but cop shows like the early seasons of Law and Order and all of SVU, NYPD, and then later The Wire and The Shield were pretty gritty. Video games have always been a mix of squeaky clean Mario and Zelda and gory content: Think Doom, Mortal Kombat, Grand Theft Auto, Postal, etc.
isityettime 5mo ago
> Or maybe I'm just reading your comment wrong Yes, you are. Their point is orthogonal to whether people in other times or places typically have/had it worse in terms of agency, fairness, safety, etc. Their point is about the flexibility and natural variation of the original oral medium as opposed to the crystalization of written text.

ahazred8ta 5mo ago

There's a gallery of variant versions of Cinderella from different countries, even China. In many of them she has an enchanted cow. http://www.365cinderellas.com/ http://www.365cinderellas.com/