4 ms·

Workers as cattle. This is utterly disgusting and the way it’s normalized is even more revolting

by camillomiller 6mo ago

BadBadJellyBean 6mo ago
In management terms a human and a printer are the same. Both resources that need to be managed. I hate it.
- StilesCrisis 6mo ago
  Absolutely not--the printer is capex, so it's preferable to the humans who are opex.
  - jameshart 6mo ago
    No no, this quarter we’re trying to shift from capex to opex. Try to keep up.
  - magnetometer 6mo ago
    Usually, companies value opex more than capex - opex is much more flexible. That's one of the reasons why printers, coffee machines, companies cars and other things are typically leased.
    - jordanb 6mo ago
      Not really that simple. Opex gets better tax treatment (you can deduct it in full every year) but people aren't always Opex depending on what they're doing (research tends to be Capex) Also tax treatment isn't the only consideration for financial engineering: It's easier for a company with a huge capital spend to argue that they're investing in the future and CapEx doesn't hurt EBITDA. On the other hand, some companies get worried about reporting a high "capital ratio" (ratio of capital assets to income). In reality you can't say categorically that companies prefer Opex to Capex.
      - StilesCrisis 6mo ago
        Concretely speaking, the FAANG companies are all wildly slashing opex (us) for capex (data centers, TPUs) even as the capex costs skyrocket due to demand outstripping supply.
        jordanb 6mo ago
        Programmers are usually capex to be honest, with current tax treatment. When companies switched from data center to cloud they ended up shifting a lot of their compute from capex (buying servers) to opex (paying a hyperscaler for compute by the hour). Of course if you're in one of the five tech companies building datacenters rather than renting (MSFT, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle) then things are different.
- sethops1 6mo ago
  We don't send 10% of our printers to the landfill every year just to motivate the other printers.
  - hnlmorg 6mo ago
    I take it you haven’t seen the printer demolition scene from Office Space? /s
    - jeffrallen 6mo ago
      Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta.
  - zajio1am 6mo ago
    You pretty much do that with wireless devices as a wISP.
Ray20 6mo ago
> This is utterly disgusting This is effective. Therefore, normalization of this plays into the workers' hands, gives them information, and gives economic advantage to honest agents. I mean, you could compare it to any non-capitalist society, where such treatment of workers is declared unacceptable. But what does this translate into in reality? Such strategies are still effective and provide an advantage to those actors who adhere to them. But since firing workers for their relative effectiveness contradicts the proclaimed ideology, such workers are simply accused of random crimes against the country and executed.
- davidjfelix 6mo ago
  so you're saying its not the evil that's the problem its the hypocrisy?

Workers as cattle. This is utterly disgusting and the way it’s normalized is even more revolting

BadBadJellyBean 6mo ago

In management terms a human and a printer are the same. Both resources that need to be managed. I hate it.

StilesCrisis 6mo ago
Absolutely not--the printer is capex, so it's preferable to the humans who are opex.
- jameshart 6mo ago
  No no, this quarter we’re trying to shift from capex to opex. Try to keep up.
- magnetometer 6mo ago
  Usually, companies value opex more than capex - opex is much more flexible. That's one of the reasons why printers, coffee machines, companies cars and other things are typically leased.
  - jordanb 6mo ago
    Not really that simple. Opex gets better tax treatment (you can deduct it in full every year) but people aren't always Opex depending on what they're doing (research tends to be Capex) Also tax treatment isn't the only consideration for financial engineering: It's easier for a company with a huge capital spend to argue that they're investing in the future and CapEx doesn't hurt EBITDA. On the other hand, some companies get worried about reporting a high "capital ratio" (ratio of capital assets to income). In reality you can't say categorically that companies prefer Opex to Capex.
    - StilesCrisis 6mo ago
      Concretely speaking, the FAANG companies are all wildly slashing opex (us) for capex (data centers, TPUs) even as the capex costs skyrocket due to demand outstripping supply.
      - jordanb 6mo ago
        Programmers are usually capex to be honest, with current tax treatment. When companies switched from data center to cloud they ended up shifting a lot of their compute from capex (buying servers) to opex (paying a hyperscaler for compute by the hour). Of course if you're in one of the five tech companies building datacenters rather than renting (MSFT, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Oracle) then things are different.
sethops1 6mo ago
We don't send 10% of our printers to the landfill every year just to motivate the other printers.
- hnlmorg 6mo ago
  I take it you haven’t seen the printer demolition scene from Office Space? /s
  - jeffrallen 6mo ago
    Damn, it feels good to be a gangsta.
- zajio1am 6mo ago
  You pretty much do that with wireless devices as a wISP.

Ray20 6mo ago

> This is utterly disgusting This is effective. Therefore, normalization of this plays into the workers' hands, gives them information, and gives economic advantage to honest agents. I mean, you could compare it to any non-capitalist society, where such treatment of workers is declared unacceptable. But what does this translate into in reality? Such strategies are still effective and provide an advantage to those actors who adhere to them. But since firing workers for their relative effectiveness contradicts the proclaimed ideology, such workers are simply accused of random crimes against the country and executed.

davidjfelix 6mo ago
so you're saying its not the evil that's the problem its the hypocrisy?