5 ms·

People are definitely trying to make HN bots because I have seen several get flagged. No idea to what end though.

by skupig 5mo ago

krapp 5mo ago
Possibly to test reactions to a bot they plan to build a startup around. I've seen some claim they do it to avoid stylometry or being fingerprinted, or because of social anxiety problems. Some people just have a compulsive need to optimize everything, and HN's guidelines and tone policing are more easily followed by a bot than a human.
- isityettime 5mo ago
  > HN's guidelines and tone policing are more easily followed by a bot than a human. HN's guidelines aren't that strict and the mod hammer is a plushie. It's not difficult to get by here. It's also kind of useful for critical reflection/self-regulation to hear the occasional "you came in too hot" or "don't be boring" from a moderator. Seems better to me to just try to be sort of reasonable and let the mods nudge you if they need to and let your comments be downvoted from time to time. What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? To never write an unpopular comment?
  - krapp 5mo ago
    >What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? To never write an unpopular comment? Yes?
    - isityettime 5mo ago
      That seems like a really extreme goal to me. I should hope there's a better way to address the anxiety or whatever it is that's motivating it.
  - ceejayoz 5mo ago
    > What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? Look at all the people who complain about cancel culture. There's a huge swath of people who don't ever want to hear "that was mean/bad/shitty".
mghackerlady 5mo ago
the suits or suit minded people have realised that HN is good for advertising to the kind of demographic that'll give them free labour and is easily swayed by whatever the latest trend is
- pocksuppet 5mo ago
  That's why we all love the MIT license.
  - mghackerlady 5mo ago
    I think permissive licenses are fine in some cases (particularly if you're trying to standardise something. X11, LLVM, and BSD are good examples), but generally at least weak (LGPL or MPL) copyleft are preferred. I'm still torn on what kind of license is best for operating systems, though (the GPL has forced companies to actually contribute to Linux but they also try and get around it in so many ways I have to wonder if a weaker license would be better)
    - pocksuppet 5mo ago
      In some cases, yes. It has to be used judiciously. The free software pioneers understood this, and wrote a little essay about it (LGPL vs GPL): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html In short, it depends on the market situation: if you created something new and exciting, you should use GPL (nowadays that would be AGPL) to encourage lock-in. If you created something that is supposed to displace an existing proprietary product, you should use LGPL to encourage switching. These days it'd be MIT, but MIT is exactly the same as proprietary as far as user freedom is concerned.
tardedmeme 5mo ago
The ones you see flagged are the very obvious bots. What about the more sophisticated ones? How do I know skupig isn't a bot?
Forgeties79 5mo ago
I didn’t say that people weren’t doing it. I was asking this person not to do that here since it sort of sounds like they have plans to
fullshark 5mo ago
Why would reddit bots exist? (In)organic advertising, same concept here.
pibaker 5mo ago
People still see HN as a valuable place for promoting their businesses. Usually some poorly thought out SaaS. If you look at what people outside HN talk about HN, it's not uncommon to see wannabe tech entrepreneurs talking about how to promote their products via Show HNs and how to stay HN front page. It's honestly a little sad considering that HN has a tendency to rip these projects apart.
- tomhow 5mo ago
  People (and bots) who think HN is the place to “promote their products” don't understand HN (though, as you note, that belief is is widespread and is having an acute effect on our inbox!) Show HN is for showing a cool project you've built. To warrant front page placement, it has to “gratify intellectual curiosity”, just like everything else. There needs to be some kind of novel breakthrough or something for others to learn from. Or, sure, some way it can help others with their work or life. And yes, a byproduct of all this may be that some people buy a license or subscription. But submitters who are just trying to get attention and sales for a commercial product don't belong in Show HN.

People are definitely trying to make HN bots because I have seen several get flagged. No idea to what end though.

by skupig 5mo ago

People are definitely trying to make HN bots because I have seen several get flagged. No idea to what end though.

krapp 5mo ago

Possibly to test reactions to a bot they plan to build a startup around. I've seen some claim they do it to avoid stylometry or being fingerprinted, or because of social anxiety problems. Some people just have a compulsive need to optimize everything, and HN's guidelines and tone policing are more easily followed by a bot than a human.

isityettime 5mo ago
> HN's guidelines and tone policing are more easily followed by a bot than a human. HN's guidelines aren't that strict and the mod hammer is a plushie. It's not difficult to get by here. It's also kind of useful for critical reflection/self-regulation to hear the occasional "you came in too hot" or "don't be boring" from a moderator. Seems better to me to just try to be sort of reasonable and let the mods nudge you if they need to and let your comments be downvoted from time to time. What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? To never write an unpopular comment?
- krapp 5mo ago
  >What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? To never write an unpopular comment? Yes?
  - isityettime 5mo ago
    That seems like a really extreme goal to me. I should hope there's a better way to address the anxiety or whatever it is that's motivating it.
- ceejayoz 5mo ago
  > What is the goal of these people, to never experience correction in their lives? Look at all the people who complain about cancel culture. There's a huge swath of people who don't ever want to hear "that was mean/bad/shitty".

mghackerlady 5mo ago

the suits or suit minded people have realised that HN is good for advertising to the kind of demographic that'll give them free labour and is easily swayed by whatever the latest trend is

pocksuppet 5mo ago
That's why we all love the MIT license.
- mghackerlady 5mo ago
  I think permissive licenses are fine in some cases (particularly if you're trying to standardise something. X11, LLVM, and BSD are good examples), but generally at least weak (LGPL or MPL) copyleft are preferred. I'm still torn on what kind of license is best for operating systems, though (the GPL has forced companies to actually contribute to Linux but they also try and get around it in so many ways I have to wonder if a weaker license would be better)
  - pocksuppet 5mo ago
    In some cases, yes. It has to be used judiciously. The free software pioneers understood this, and wrote a little essay about it (LGPL vs GPL): https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html https://www.gnu.org/licenses/why-not-lgpl.html In short, it depends on the market situation: if you created something new and exciting, you should use GPL (nowadays that would be AGPL) to encourage lock-in. If you created something that is supposed to displace an existing proprietary product, you should use LGPL to encourage switching. These days it'd be MIT, but MIT is exactly the same as proprietary as far as user freedom is concerned.

tardedmeme 5mo ago

The ones you see flagged are the very obvious bots. What about the more sophisticated ones? How do I know skupig isn't a bot?

Forgeties79 5mo ago

I didn’t say that people weren’t doing it. I was asking this person not to do that here since it sort of sounds like they have plans to

fullshark 5mo ago

Why would reddit bots exist? (In)organic advertising, same concept here.

pibaker 5mo ago

People still see HN as a valuable place for promoting their businesses. Usually some poorly thought out SaaS. If you look at what people outside HN talk about HN, it's not uncommon to see wannabe tech entrepreneurs talking about how to promote their products via Show HNs and how to stay HN front page. It's honestly a little sad considering that HN has a tendency to rip these projects apart.

tomhow 5mo ago
People (and bots) who think HN is the place to “promote their products” don't understand HN (though, as you note, that belief is is widespread and is having an acute effect on our inbox!) Show HN is for showing a cool project you've built. To warrant front page placement, it has to “gratify intellectual curiosity”, just like everything else. There needs to be some kind of novel breakthrough or something for others to learn from. Or, sure, some way it can help others with their work or life. And yes, a byproduct of all this may be that some people buy a license or subscription. But submitters who are just trying to get attention and sales for a commercial product don't belong in Show HN.