5 ms·

Maybe with AI we can finally kill user-owned computing, and make almost everyone renters. It's really wrong that the common people have access to things like P

Maybe with AI we can finally kill user-owned computing, and make almost everyone renters. It's really wrong that the common people have access to things like PCs. It leaves a lot of money on the table the corporations can extract, and makes control much harder. PCs should cost at least as much as a car, so only the right people can afford them. Own nothing and be happy.

martinwilly34 6mo ago
[dead]
2ndorderthought 6mo ago
[flagged]
- wg0 6mo ago
  AI bros and crypto bros. One and the same thing. Same optimism. Same arguments. Same blind faith. Same zero knowledge of how economy, society or even the technology they are evangelizing works under the hood and what are its shortcomings that are impossible to overcome because physics won't allow.
  - red75prime 6mo ago
    > what are its shortcomings that are impossible to overcome because physics won't allow. Have you intended to say "because reasons"? There should be a long chain of reasoning connecting "LLMs will never be able to strictly follow instructions written in natural language (as agreed by 90% consensus of experts or some such, because you can't formally verify adherence to informal natural language instructions)" and "physics doesn't allow that." And I can't find it anywhere. Neither in your comment history, nor in literature.
    - wg0 6mo ago
      Because it is next token predictions and there is no logical part into that. It is like saying I cannot find any research paper on the fact that car collusion might cause fire because gasoline is in the tank. But the fact is that there's plenty of literature out there on hallucination and unreliability of LLMs already. If you know otherwise, let us inform Dario before next funding round.
      - red75prime 6mo ago
        Next token prediction is a pretraining objective that doesn't tell anything about behavior and activation structure of the resultant network. The literature that explores a hallucination problem has little to do with your claim about physical impossibility.
- stavros 6mo ago
  If you want it to be sarcasm, treat it like sarcasm. What's the worst thing that could happen?
  - cortesoft 6mo ago
    Well, the last time I assumed everyone was being sarcastic and ironic, until they actually elected the guy president.
    - stavros 6mo ago
      Haha, ah yes, good old GWB.
- elzbardico 6mo ago
  Not to mention the comment agents. The true AI bro/sis won't waste her/his time commenting when an agent can do it for him/her.
  - 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
    Have to efficiently trash the internet of course.
mannanj 6mo ago
You sound like a useless-eater manager. Just the kind of roles we'll be happy to have in our future Utopia. The people will be happy to be led by such visionaries such as yourself.
- teachrdan 6mo ago
  Hey, I'm pretty sure the person you're replying to is being satirical, and you're both in alignment on this one.
  - mannanj 6mo ago
    We were both being satirical. Seems like people couldn't seem to attribute me the same generosity and benefit of the doubt as the OP. Funny and yet the starkness of the hostility onto my post and not his is real.
cryo32 6mo ago
Sarcasm aside, yep. There will be three classes: the owned, the owners and the unownable. I aim to be unownable.
- therepanic 6mo ago
  There will be two classes: those who are part of the perpetual underclass and those who are not. And 98 percent of the population will be part of it.
  - psadauskas 6mo ago
    There are _already_ two classes: Those who earn their living from their labor, and those whose income is derived simply by owning things they (often) didn't create themselves and charge for access.
    - rokkamokka 6mo ago
      The root of most of society's problems right there...
      - smokel 6mo ago
        [flagged]
    - palmotea 6mo ago
      > Those who earn their living from their labor If any of these people don't work or don't work enough, they undeserving immoral moochers and should be miserable and in pain. > and those whose income is derived simply by owning things they (often) didn't create themselves and charge for access. It totally fine if these people never lift a finger in their lives. In fact, they deserve it. NEVER question that. N-E-V-E-R! It's great! Capitalism is great! Capitalism is fair!
    - SoftTalker 6mo ago
      You talk like this is new, it's the way it's always been.
nickpp 6mo ago
PCs are also made by corporations, together with PC parts. The reason computing became so cheap during the last 50 years was competition between said corporations. Competition that is also pushing the AI token price down and also encouraging - corporations - to come up with models that can run on user hardware. So what are you ranting against?! > Own nothing and be happy. Ah, here it is. Only governments can confiscate our property and force us into that. Governments and politicians that keep telling us how evil corporations are…
- bluefirebrand 6mo ago
  > Only governments can confiscate our property and force us into that. ... Do you want corporations to have that power too or something? What are you saying here?
- hn_throw2025 6mo ago
  The “own nothing and be happy” quote is from a blog post made by the World Economic Forum. I find meta-governmental organisations even more troublesome, and you can’t vote them out. It isn’t only conspiracy theorists who should be disturbed by whatever politico-corporate freemasonry that goes on in Davos.
- harvey9 6mo ago
  In the digital age corporations can and do confiscate things we thought we owned. Amazon removing paid-for kindle books, devices getting bricked, paying a recurring fee to use some features in your car.
  - nickpp 6mo ago
    Every year, the government comes around, reassesses my house value (always up, never down) and ask me to pay a percentage (always increasing) or they will take away my house which shelters my kids and family. So, no, I am not too worried about Amazon removing my $9.99 book.
e2le 6mo ago
It's unfortunate but personal general-purpose computing has being under attack for a long time, this is only another nail in the coffin.
deleted 6mo ago
[deleted]
tru3_power 6mo ago
I kinda felt like this was coming so mid last year I built a local rig with the top of the line parts I could afford at the time lol (rtx5090/ryzen9 etc) now I just need to build out my inference setup (sadly m3 ultras r insanely expensive now) - I have a feeling they will try to lock down usage of open source LLMs too. I don’t get how token moat can exist if local inference rigs can be built out and serve open source models locally for nothing (besides power cost).
svachalek 6mo ago
I'm sure this makes the billionaire class happy but there are some legit economics involved. We all want frontier class models running on our home PC but that takes 100x or 1000x the computer we've been running. The market isn't going to instantly adapt and make that kind of machine for the same price we've been paying for 1% of it, so that we can leave it sitting idle 99% of the day.

martinwilly34 6mo ago

[dead]

2ndorderthought 6mo ago

[flagged]

wg0 6mo ago
AI bros and crypto bros. One and the same thing. Same optimism. Same arguments. Same blind faith. Same zero knowledge of how economy, society or even the technology they are evangelizing works under the hood and what are its shortcomings that are impossible to overcome because physics won't allow.
- red75prime 6mo ago
  > what are its shortcomings that are impossible to overcome because physics won't allow. Have you intended to say "because reasons"? There should be a long chain of reasoning connecting "LLMs will never be able to strictly follow instructions written in natural language (as agreed by 90% consensus of experts or some such, because you can't formally verify adherence to informal natural language instructions)" and "physics doesn't allow that." And I can't find it anywhere. Neither in your comment history, nor in literature.
  - wg0 6mo ago
    Because it is next token predictions and there is no logical part into that. It is like saying I cannot find any research paper on the fact that car collusion might cause fire because gasoline is in the tank. But the fact is that there's plenty of literature out there on hallucination and unreliability of LLMs already. If you know otherwise, let us inform Dario before next funding round.
    - red75prime 6mo ago
      Next token prediction is a pretraining objective that doesn't tell anything about behavior and activation structure of the resultant network. The literature that explores a hallucination problem has little to do with your claim about physical impossibility.
stavros 6mo ago
If you want it to be sarcasm, treat it like sarcasm. What's the worst thing that could happen?
- cortesoft 6mo ago
  Well, the last time I assumed everyone was being sarcastic and ironic, until they actually elected the guy president.
  - stavros 6mo ago
    Haha, ah yes, good old GWB.
elzbardico 6mo ago
Not to mention the comment agents. The true AI bro/sis won't waste her/his time commenting when an agent can do it for him/her.
- 2ndorderthought 6mo ago
  Have to efficiently trash the internet of course.

mannanj 6mo ago

You sound like a useless-eater manager. Just the kind of roles we'll be happy to have in our future Utopia. The people will be happy to be led by such visionaries such as yourself.

teachrdan 6mo ago
Hey, I'm pretty sure the person you're replying to is being satirical, and you're both in alignment on this one.
- mannanj 6mo ago
  We were both being satirical. Seems like people couldn't seem to attribute me the same generosity and benefit of the doubt as the OP. Funny and yet the starkness of the hostility onto my post and not his is real.

cryo32 6mo ago

Sarcasm aside, yep. There will be three classes: the owned, the owners and the unownable. I aim to be unownable.

therepanic 6mo ago
There will be two classes: those who are part of the perpetual underclass and those who are not. And 98 percent of the population will be part of it.
- psadauskas 6mo ago
  There are _already_ two classes: Those who earn their living from their labor, and those whose income is derived simply by owning things they (often) didn't create themselves and charge for access.
  - rokkamokka 6mo ago
    The root of most of society's problems right there...
    - smokel 6mo ago
      [flagged]
  - palmotea 6mo ago
    > Those who earn their living from their labor If any of these people don't work or don't work enough, they undeserving immoral moochers and should be miserable and in pain. > and those whose income is derived simply by owning things they (often) didn't create themselves and charge for access. It totally fine if these people never lift a finger in their lives. In fact, they deserve it. NEVER question that. N-E-V-E-R! It's great! Capitalism is great! Capitalism is fair!
  - SoftTalker 6mo ago
    You talk like this is new, it's the way it's always been.

nickpp 6mo ago

PCs are also made by corporations, together with PC parts. The reason computing became so cheap during the last 50 years was competition between said corporations. Competition that is also pushing the AI token price down and also encouraging - corporations - to come up with models that can run on user hardware. So what are you ranting against?! > Own nothing and be happy. Ah, here it is. Only governments can confiscate our property and force us into that. Governments and politicians that keep telling us how evil corporations are…

bluefirebrand 6mo ago
> Only governments can confiscate our property and force us into that. ... Do you want corporations to have that power too or something? What are you saying here?
hn_throw2025 6mo ago
The “own nothing and be happy” quote is from a blog post made by the World Economic Forum. I find meta-governmental organisations even more troublesome, and you can’t vote them out. It isn’t only conspiracy theorists who should be disturbed by whatever politico-corporate freemasonry that goes on in Davos.
harvey9 6mo ago
In the digital age corporations can and do confiscate things we thought we owned. Amazon removing paid-for kindle books, devices getting bricked, paying a recurring fee to use some features in your car.
- nickpp 6mo ago
  Every year, the government comes around, reassesses my house value (always up, never down) and ask me to pay a percentage (always increasing) or they will take away my house which shelters my kids and family. So, no, I am not too worried about Amazon removing my $9.99 book.

e2le 6mo ago

It's unfortunate but personal general-purpose computing has being under attack for a long time, this is only another nail in the coffin.

deleted 6mo ago

[deleted]

tru3_power 6mo ago

I kinda felt like this was coming so mid last year I built a local rig with the top of the line parts I could afford at the time lol (rtx5090/ryzen9 etc) now I just need to build out my inference setup (sadly m3 ultras r insanely expensive now) - I have a feeling they will try to lock down usage of open source LLMs too. I don’t get how token moat can exist if local inference rigs can be built out and serve open source models locally for nothing (besides power cost).

svachalek 6mo ago

I'm sure this makes the billionaire class happy but there are some legit economics involved. We all want frontier class models running on our home PC but that takes 100x or 1000x the computer we've been running. The market isn't going to instantly adapt and make that kind of machine for the same price we've been paying for 1% of it, so that we can leave it sitting idle 99% of the day.