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I'm not really sure what to make of this. The article is conflating tradeoffs people make. People typically overbid on housing for access to good public schools

by nose 5mo ago

I'm not really sure what to make of this. The article is conflating tradeoffs people make. People typically overbid on housing for access to good public schools. Folks sending their kids to private school live in a cheaper home with a better commute. They're optimizing for commute time, perceived safety, education, and access to child care. The real way for everyone to escape this perceived hedonic treadmill is to build more housing, invest in public transit infrastructure, and have affordable childcare.

avazhi 5mo ago
The upper middle class don’t need to use public transport and have no issues paying for childcare. It’s like you’ve commented on the wrong article or something. This article was talking about marginal costs and benefits.
- threetonesun 5mo ago
  I'm not sure you understand who the upper middle class are.
  - avazhi 5mo ago
    Household incomes exceed $100,000 (equivalent to $164,849 in 2025).[5] Professions for this class may include: judges, senior military officers, financial planners, engineers, professors, architects, airline pilots, and businessmen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit...
    - nose 5mo ago
      How do they pickup their kids towards the end of the workday? Commute times are a real factor in deciding where to live, and which schools to pick. In the Bay Area, the only real solution is living closer to work, which requires over bidding & selecting private schools if they picked the wrong area.
      - avazhi 5mo ago
        Why are you using the metropolis with the highest cost of living in the US as some kind of benchmark? SF is an extreme outlier. Why do you keep mentioning it? Almost everybody who is upper middle class in the US doesn’t live in San Fransisco, so find a better comparator.
    - threetonesun 5mo ago
      Sure, now map that income to transit usage in any major American city that actually has public transit. Also $160k household can be very different in terms of childcare costs depending on how many people in that household are working, and is an actual problem for double income families with young kids in HCOL areas.
  - lief79 5mo ago
    That's a very common problem, it's not a well defined and clearly visible definition.
- swiftcoder 5mo ago
  > The upper middle class don’t need to use public transport Their kids still ride the school busses. Upper-middle class aren't in a position to hire a limo and driver to take the kids to school. > and have no issues paying for childcare Typically because both parents are working high pressure jobs, which makes childcare a mandatory expense, not a luxury.
  - avazhi 5mo ago
    Plenty of those in the upper middle class can just drive their kids to school. Some of them are taking a bus, sure, but not most. You and some of these other responders are clearly conflating the middle class and the UPPER middle class. The upper middle class made >$160k in 2025. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit...
    - swiftcoder 5mo ago
      > The upper middle class made >$160k in 2025 I was figuring upper middle class was around 2x that (250-400k) in desirable areas like the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. Which after mortgage/rent, car payments, school fees... still isn't private-limo or even stay-at-home-parent money
      - avazhi 5mo ago
        > I was figuring upper middle class was around 2x that (250-400k) in desirable areas like the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. Which after mortgage/rent, car payments, school fees... still isn't private-limo or even stay-at-home-parent money Nobody said anybody is taking a limo, I have no clue where this straw man obsession of yours even came from. Depending on which part of the country you’re in, 160k absolutely is stay at home money for the (most likely) wife, who would also be picking up the kid(s). Sure, that isn’t upper middle class money in San Francisco or NYC, but it was surely obvious nobody was saying it was in this context lol. Legit this thing with you and limos is so weird. You realise limos basically don’t even exist anymore except as a gag for high school proms, right?
- jrumbut 5mo ago
  > have no issues paying for childcare I guess this depends what you mean by issue. One can pay for it but eventually (especially for multiple children) it crowds out other things. The price forces a consideration of marginal costs and benefits instead of being able to think about it in terms like "my child would be happier here" or "I value education in classics/fine arts/religion/whatever else a private school teaches for non-financial reasons."
- footy 5mo ago
  I consider myself upper middle class and I ride the bus. I'd rather ride my bike but sometimes I ride the bus.
- hirvi74 5mo ago
  I am not sure where I am on the stack, but I make more than most families in my area and I heavily rely on public transport. It's also why I can afford to a lot of things others cannot -- I am not sinking money into a car payment, car insurance, gas, etc. every month.
- LPisGood 5mo ago
  I’ve heard it said that a country is wealthy not when the poor have cars but when the rich use public transportation.
  - Synthetic7346 5mo ago
    Couldn't the country be poor with exorbitantly expensive parking?
    - alterom 5mo ago
      In short: no, not to the extent that it'd make rich people use public transportation. Their personal driver can pick them up if needs be.
- surajrmal 5mo ago
  It's absurd to say the upper middle class doesn't use public transportation. Of course they do. My commute is $8 each way on public transportation and would be significantly worse or more expensive if I drove (traffic) or used Uber. I could afford to live closer to work, but I wouldn't have nearly a nice home or sense of safety for my family. Childcare also is still a major consideration when deciding how many children to have. No one wants to earn upper middle class wages and still end up living paycheck to paycheck.
  - Synthetic7346 5mo ago
    I also take public transportation into work because parking is expensive and work pays for a commuter card. But for literally everything else I have to drive, even to get to public transportation. It does feel like a upper middle class privilege. If I were poorer I'd be renting close to work to save
  - swiftcoder 5mo ago
    > It's absurd to say the upper middle class doesn't use public transportation. Of course they do. This is maybe only a thing in the handful of US cities with a well-developed subway/tram system? I've not seen many upper middle class folks taking the bus in other US cities
deleted 5mo ago
[deleted]
mettamage 5mo ago
> People typically overbid on housing for access to good public schools. Such an American thing. Not sure what to make of it.
- TimorousBestie 5mo ago
  It’s a soft form of segregation that hangs around because the upper classes benefit from it. For example, the practice of funding public schools with property taxes was found unconstitutional in Ohio back in ‘97, but the Republican-held legislature ignored the ruling and refused to create an alternative. The practice continues even today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRolph_v._State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRolph_v._State https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Ohio_state_government https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Ohio_state_governme...
  - em-bee 5mo ago
    it is interesting to look at germany here. rules there are different in each region, and some regions have free choice of schools. basically the finding is that in some cases free choice lead to even more segregation in each school because parents avoid schools that have lots of lower class or migrant children. by forcing parents to live near the school the problem is "limited" to the people who can afford to move. so it's swapping one problem for another. the results seem to be mixed however, some studies report that switching to free choice had no effect.
- zelos 5mo ago
  It’s the same in the UK, house prices in the catchment area of a good school are significantly higher.
- pipes 5mo ago
  And a UK thing, well not so much northern Ireland, but the rest of the UK uses catchment areas and I'm experiencing this now.
  - fjlunky 5mo ago
rurp 5mo ago
That stuff will help on the margins but won't fundamentally change anything as long as you have a growing number of people chasing after a limited number of high status purchases. There will always be a limited number of ivy league school openings, fancy hotels in Paris, and houses in the Hamptons. The only options are to participate in the same increasingly competitive rat race with your peers, or look for a different angle. Some people are fortunate to have interests outside the norm that they can pursue, but others will need to put in some more effort to explore and find what they actually like. For upper middle class vacationers taking a trip through Paris, Barcelona, and other big name European cities to visit nice hotels and restaurants is probably the most stereotypical vacation possible. For some people that is their ideal trip, but the demand for those locations is off the charts. Given the thousands of alternative vacation spots out there, most people would have a much better time and save money going somewhere less obvious.

by nose 5mo ago

avazhi 5mo ago

The upper middle class don’t need to use public transport and have no issues paying for childcare. It’s like you’ve commented on the wrong article or something. This article was talking about marginal costs and benefits.

threetonesun 5mo ago
I'm not sure you understand who the upper middle class are.
- avazhi 5mo ago
  Household incomes exceed $100,000 (equivalent to $164,849 in 2025).[5] Professions for this class may include: judges, senior military officers, financial planners, engineers, professors, architects, airline pilots, and businessmen. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit...
  - nose 5mo ago
    How do they pickup their kids towards the end of the workday? Commute times are a real factor in deciding where to live, and which schools to pick. In the Bay Area, the only real solution is living closer to work, which requires over bidding & selecting private schools if they picked the wrong area.
    - avazhi 5mo ago
      Why are you using the metropolis with the highest cost of living in the US as some kind of benchmark? SF is an extreme outlier. Why do you keep mentioning it? Almost everybody who is upper middle class in the US doesn’t live in San Fransisco, so find a better comparator.
  - threetonesun 5mo ago
    Sure, now map that income to transit usage in any major American city that actually has public transit. Also $160k household can be very different in terms of childcare costs depending on how many people in that household are working, and is an actual problem for double income families with young kids in HCOL areas.
- lief79 5mo ago
  That's a very common problem, it's not a well defined and clearly visible definition.
swiftcoder 5mo ago
> The upper middle class don’t need to use public transport Their kids still ride the school busses. Upper-middle class aren't in a position to hire a limo and driver to take the kids to school. > and have no issues paying for childcare Typically because both parents are working high pressure jobs, which makes childcare a mandatory expense, not a luxury.
- avazhi 5mo ago
  Plenty of those in the upper middle class can just drive their kids to school. Some of them are taking a bus, sure, but not most. You and some of these other responders are clearly conflating the middle class and the UPPER middle class. The upper middle class made >$160k in 2025. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class_in_the_Unit...
  - swiftcoder 5mo ago
    > The upper middle class made >$160k in 2025 I was figuring upper middle class was around 2x that (250-400k) in desirable areas like the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. Which after mortgage/rent, car payments, school fees... still isn't private-limo or even stay-at-home-parent money
    - avazhi 5mo ago
      > I was figuring upper middle class was around 2x that (250-400k) in desirable areas like the Bay Area/Seattle/NYC. Which after mortgage/rent, car payments, school fees... still isn't private-limo or even stay-at-home-parent money Nobody said anybody is taking a limo, I have no clue where this straw man obsession of yours even came from. Depending on which part of the country you’re in, 160k absolutely is stay at home money for the (most likely) wife, who would also be picking up the kid(s). Sure, that isn’t upper middle class money in San Francisco or NYC, but it was surely obvious nobody was saying it was in this context lol. Legit this thing with you and limos is so weird. You realise limos basically don’t even exist anymore except as a gag for high school proms, right?
jrumbut 5mo ago
> have no issues paying for childcare I guess this depends what you mean by issue. One can pay for it but eventually (especially for multiple children) it crowds out other things. The price forces a consideration of marginal costs and benefits instead of being able to think about it in terms like "my child would be happier here" or "I value education in classics/fine arts/religion/whatever else a private school teaches for non-financial reasons."
footy 5mo ago
I consider myself upper middle class and I ride the bus. I'd rather ride my bike but sometimes I ride the bus.
hirvi74 5mo ago
I am not sure where I am on the stack, but I make more than most families in my area and I heavily rely on public transport. It's also why I can afford to a lot of things others cannot -- I am not sinking money into a car payment, car insurance, gas, etc. every month.
LPisGood 5mo ago
I’ve heard it said that a country is wealthy not when the poor have cars but when the rich use public transportation.
- Synthetic7346 5mo ago
  Couldn't the country be poor with exorbitantly expensive parking?
  - alterom 5mo ago
    In short: no, not to the extent that it'd make rich people use public transportation. Their personal driver can pick them up if needs be.
surajrmal 5mo ago
It's absurd to say the upper middle class doesn't use public transportation. Of course they do. My commute is $8 each way on public transportation and would be significantly worse or more expensive if I drove (traffic) or used Uber. I could afford to live closer to work, but I wouldn't have nearly a nice home or sense of safety for my family. Childcare also is still a major consideration when deciding how many children to have. No one wants to earn upper middle class wages and still end up living paycheck to paycheck.
- Synthetic7346 5mo ago
  I also take public transportation into work because parking is expensive and work pays for a commuter card. But for literally everything else I have to drive, even to get to public transportation. It does feel like a upper middle class privilege. If I were poorer I'd be renting close to work to save
- swiftcoder 5mo ago
  > It's absurd to say the upper middle class doesn't use public transportation. Of course they do. This is maybe only a thing in the handful of US cities with a well-developed subway/tram system? I've not seen many upper middle class folks taking the bus in other US cities

deleted 5mo ago

[deleted]

mettamage 5mo ago

> People typically overbid on housing for access to good public schools. Such an American thing. Not sure what to make of it.

TimorousBestie 5mo ago
It’s a soft form of segregation that hangs around because the upper classes benefit from it. For example, the practice of funding public schools with property taxes was found unconstitutional in Ohio back in ‘97, but the Republican-held legislature ignored the ruling and refused to create an alternative. The practice continues even today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRolph_v._State https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeRolph_v._State https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Ohio_state_government https://ballotpedia.org/Party_control_of_Ohio_state_governme...
- em-bee 5mo ago
  it is interesting to look at germany here. rules there are different in each region, and some regions have free choice of schools. basically the finding is that in some cases free choice lead to even more segregation in each school because parents avoid schools that have lots of lower class or migrant children. by forcing parents to live near the school the problem is "limited" to the people who can afford to move. so it's swapping one problem for another. the results seem to be mixed however, some studies report that switching to free choice had no effect.
zelos 5mo ago
It’s the same in the UK, house prices in the catchment area of a good school are significantly higher.
pipes 5mo ago
And a UK thing, well not so much northern Ireland, but the rest of the UK uses catchment areas and I'm experiencing this now.
- fjlunky 5mo ago

rurp 5mo ago

That stuff will help on the margins but won't fundamentally change anything as long as you have a growing number of people chasing after a limited number of high status purchases. There will always be a limited number of ivy league school openings, fancy hotels in Paris, and houses in the Hamptons. The only options are to participate in the same increasingly competitive rat race with your peers, or look for a different angle. Some people are fortunate to have interests outside the norm that they can pursue, but others will need to put in some more effort to explore and find what they actually like. For upper middle class vacationers taking a trip through Paris, Barcelona, and other big name European cities to visit nice hotels and restaurants is probably the most stereotypical vacation possible. For some people that is their ideal trip, but the demand for those locations is off the charts. Given the thousands of alternative vacation spots out there, most people would have a much better time and save money going somewhere less obvious.