3 ms·

> You can just insider trade, launder money, commit investment fraud, anything you want, the way you saw random people just walking into CVS drug stores years a

> You can just insider trade, launder money, commit investment fraud, anything you want, the way you saw random people just walking into CVS drug stores years ago in SF and grabbing stuff and walking out. Something I'd disagree with is... enforcement will not help against what causes people to turn out and steal in stores. Fix widespread poverty, get people out of homelessness, help people legitimately get off of drugs, help them get jobs even when they have convictions on the book, and then they won't need to become members of what is, essentially, small and hyperlocal crime networks. In contrast, insider traders and billion-scale fraudsters - they do not have the need for survival pushing them to do crime. It is just pure unchecked greed that drives them.

trollbridge 6mo ago
It’s a myth that petty shoplifting is something done by poor people. The people doing it are usually part of organised crime (that is not “hyperlocal”) and generally are doing better than actual poor people. The idea poor people are somehow criminal is a myth that needs to be eradicated.
- danans 6mo ago
  > t’s a myth that petty shoplifting is something done by poor people. The people doing it are usually part of organised crime (that is not “hyperlocal”) and generally are doing better than actual poor people There is not such a strong distinction. Organized crime groups often use poor people who have few alternatives as the pawns of their theft and fencing operations. People with other better options don't usually take up petty crime as a vocation.
  - trollbridge 6mo ago
    I would say that many people with better options take up sophisticated crime as a vocation. Obviously poor and rich people choose vocations a little differently. There is not overall any sign that poor people, as a whole, have increased criminality; other factors like culture are far stronger. Punishing crime and preventing it (like shoplifting) helps poor people, too. Poor people do not benefit from stores closing, or having the stores closest to them have everything locked up.
    - danans 6mo ago
      > There is not overall any sign that poor people, as a whole, have increased criminality; other factors like culture are far stronger. "Criminality" is too broad a characterization. It covers both assault and petty theft. I never said the poor are more criminal as a group than any other group. People in poverty are more likely to commit petty theft out of need. Similarly, people who are very wealthy are more likely to commit large scale tax evasion out of greed. Both are financial crimes, but they are not committed equally by both groups. > Punishing crime and preventing it (like shoplifting) helps poor people, too. Yes, and so does giving people in poverty a step up out of life circumstances that make them more likely to commit petty crimes (like shoplifting). Similarly, punishing large scale financial crimes by the wealthy (something that has basically stopped of late) would benefit everyone, from the poor to the wealthy. In fact, punishment may be the only disincentive for financial crimes by the wealthy, since they don't want for anything else.
triceratops 6mo ago
> enforcement will not help against what causes people to turn out and steal in stores Yes and no. Enforcement deters career criminals by increasing the cost of doing business. Improving society means fewer honest people have to turn to crime. > insider traders and billion-scale fraudsters - they do not have the need for survival pushing them to do crime. It is just pure unchecked greed that drives them Right, so career criminals. See above.
- mschuster91 6mo ago
  My point is, increasing enforcement will not help against petty crime, because you gotta feed yourself somehow. The people on the lowest rungs of society dealing crack cocaine or acting as the front men for fencing rings - they got nothing to lose. In fact there's more than enough reports of people letting themselves get caught at some petty crime before winter hits so they got a few months in jail where they're at least fed and have a roof over their head. But it can and will massively help against large scale white collar crime. When you got dozens of millions of dollars in wealth, now you have the means to make more out of it (honest or not), the incentive to make more out of it - and also, a lot to lose, should they get caught.
  - triceratops 6mo ago
    > increasing enforcement will not help against petty crime I disagree. Career criminals also do petty crime.
sjsdaiuasgdia 6mo ago
> It is just pure unchecked greed that drives them I'm a fan of an idea I ran across recently. Instead of calling Musk, Bezos, Zuck, Ellison, etc the richest people in the world, we should call them the greediest. "Greediest man in the world Elon Musk promises robotaxis" hits different than the "Richest man" version Don't say "Billionaire Jeff Bezos does <thing>", say "Champion of Greed Jeff Bezos..."

trollbridge 6mo ago

It’s a myth that petty shoplifting is something done by poor people. The people doing it are usually part of organised crime (that is not “hyperlocal”) and generally are doing better than actual poor people. The idea poor people are somehow criminal is a myth that needs to be eradicated.

danans 6mo ago
> t’s a myth that petty shoplifting is something done by poor people. The people doing it are usually part of organised crime (that is not “hyperlocal”) and generally are doing better than actual poor people There is not such a strong distinction. Organized crime groups often use poor people who have few alternatives as the pawns of their theft and fencing operations. People with other better options don't usually take up petty crime as a vocation.
- trollbridge 6mo ago
  I would say that many people with better options take up sophisticated crime as a vocation. Obviously poor and rich people choose vocations a little differently. There is not overall any sign that poor people, as a whole, have increased criminality; other factors like culture are far stronger. Punishing crime and preventing it (like shoplifting) helps poor people, too. Poor people do not benefit from stores closing, or having the stores closest to them have everything locked up.
  - danans 6mo ago
    > There is not overall any sign that poor people, as a whole, have increased criminality; other factors like culture are far stronger. "Criminality" is too broad a characterization. It covers both assault and petty theft. I never said the poor are more criminal as a group than any other group. People in poverty are more likely to commit petty theft out of need. Similarly, people who are very wealthy are more likely to commit large scale tax evasion out of greed. Both are financial crimes, but they are not committed equally by both groups. > Punishing crime and preventing it (like shoplifting) helps poor people, too. Yes, and so does giving people in poverty a step up out of life circumstances that make them more likely to commit petty crimes (like shoplifting). Similarly, punishing large scale financial crimes by the wealthy (something that has basically stopped of late) would benefit everyone, from the poor to the wealthy. In fact, punishment may be the only disincentive for financial crimes by the wealthy, since they don't want for anything else.

triceratops 6mo ago

> enforcement will not help against what causes people to turn out and steal in stores Yes and no. Enforcement deters career criminals by increasing the cost of doing business. Improving society means fewer honest people have to turn to crime. > insider traders and billion-scale fraudsters - they do not have the need for survival pushing them to do crime. It is just pure unchecked greed that drives them Right, so career criminals. See above.

mschuster91 6mo ago
My point is, increasing enforcement will not help against petty crime, because you gotta feed yourself somehow. The people on the lowest rungs of society dealing crack cocaine or acting as the front men for fencing rings - they got nothing to lose. In fact there's more than enough reports of people letting themselves get caught at some petty crime before winter hits so they got a few months in jail where they're at least fed and have a roof over their head. But it can and will massively help against large scale white collar crime. When you got dozens of millions of dollars in wealth, now you have the means to make more out of it (honest or not), the incentive to make more out of it - and also, a lot to lose, should they get caught.
- triceratops 6mo ago
  > increasing enforcement will not help against petty crime I disagree. Career criminals also do petty crime.

sjsdaiuasgdia 6mo ago

> It is just pure unchecked greed that drives them I'm a fan of an idea I ran across recently. Instead of calling Musk, Bezos, Zuck, Ellison, etc the richest people in the world, we should call them the greediest. "Greediest man in the world Elon Musk promises robotaxis" hits different than the "Richest man" version Don't say "Billionaire Jeff Bezos does <thing>", say "Champion of Greed Jeff Bezos..."