5 ms·

> Also, when did we stop liking to learn? I suspect it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (there is a pocket computer always on us

by latexr 6mo ago

> Also, when did we stop liking to learn? I suspect it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (there is a pocket computer always on us with infinite effortless distraction) that we’re never bored and never engage the default mode network. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_mode_network https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXMiA8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orQKfIXMiA8 When you’re bored, your mind goes to places it wouldn’t otherwise go. Curiosity kicks in. Curiosity is a precursor to learning. Learning engages the brain and is fun. But it’s not fun all the time, some of it is challenging and frustrating (which is good, that’s the process that teaches you). When you have the digital equivalent to infinite candy and the brain equivalent to a sweet tooth, it’s hard to resist the siren’s call. The consequence is the brain equivalent to a stomachache—depression and loss of meaning—but unfortunately it doesn’t hit you the same way so you don’t make the immediate connection to make yourself stop. When you think about it, it’s ridiculous from several angles: the candy is infinite, it’s never going to run out, so you don’t need to gorge! But then we justify ourselves as only a true addict would, that while the candy is infinite, the flavours are limited editions and always rotating, and what if I miss that really good one everyone is on?! Then you miss it, is the answer. No one will be talking about it in fifteen minutes anyway.

AStrangeMorrow 6mo ago
I still love learning, especially outside of tech. Been working in the ML field for over 8 years, and while I went into it because I liked the field, I did lose some interest in learning things, but mostly because of the sheer volume of publication and the rate of change. Learning stopped being something I enjoyed doing and went to something I had to do to keep up. And it just stopped having the same flavor.
gchamonlive 6mo ago
> it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (...) that we’re never bored and never engage the default mode network. I don't know... I don't disagree, but I think this has been repeated so much that I believe everyone, at least everyone that is actively participating in HN discussions is aware of this. So if we are aware of this and we consciously choose to keep engaging in dopaminergic activities, without having some time to be bored, I think it starts to become a choice. We can blame tech for starting this trend of stealing our attention, but once we become aware of this, we can only blame ourselves for perpetuating it.
- therealpygon 6mo ago
  Or at least, aware that this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. And yet, people are being more productive (actually productive) with AI. Release schedules are increasing, bugs are getting fixed faster, security issues identified and patched sooner, so on and so forth. I’m not denying (at all) that unused skills languish. I take issue with AI being characterized as a magic eraser that mystically makes people forget what they have already learned. I’ve just done a study and concluded that dogs gets dumber when I throw a ball. What’s my evidence? They stop staring at me to chase it. The ball definitely made them forget who I was, so we shouldn’t allow dogs to have balls anymore. Can AI make developers lazy in new ways? Of course! Why wouldn’t it? I don’t write things in ASM because I can be “lazy” and write 50x more useful instructions with a few lines of a modern language. I doubt I’d be able to write working ASM anymore without a serious refresher. Did newer languages erase my memory of ASM and make me “lazy”, or did my efforts evolve to make use of the newest technology regardless of “lost” skills?
  - latexr 6mo ago
    > this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. The linked Wikipedia page has plenty of evidence and studies and you can find plenty more with a basic web search. This is not something someone just made up; if you don’t know there are a multitude of studies on the harms of social media, you haven’t looked at all. Which is fine, it’s our prerogative to not search for information, but don’t turn around and say it doesn’t exist or is anecdotal. > And yet, people are being more productive (actually productive) with AI. You said, ironically without providing evidence, in the same paragraph that you complained about evidence not being provided for something else which has plenty of it. Furthermore, there are several studies suggesting AI may in fact decrease productivity, but I’m not going to link to those because the more important point is AI has nothing to do with the conversation. The original poster mentioned AI, but this branched thread is exclusively about the “liking to learn” part.
    - addedGone 6mo ago
      [flagged]
theshrike79 6mo ago
> When you’re bored, your mind goes to places it wouldn’t otherwise go. Curiosity kicks in. Curiosity is a precursor to learning. Learning engages the brain and is fun. But it’s not fun all the time, some of it is challenging and frustrating (which is good, that’s the process that teaches you). And I love how I can go from a curious brainfart "hmm, could I do a movie catalogue app that uses a web page + phone camera + OpenAI API to identify physical DVDs by front/back cover instead of trying to find a reliable barcode database" to it actually working in maybe two hours of real time. Just paused the movie I was watching, typed the idea to Claude Code on mobile and kept watching. After the movie went back to my computer, merged the changes and tested whether it worked. It mostly did. The UI/UX was horrible etc, but the basic idea was functional. It even got some of the movie extras correctly. I didn't try to turn it into a product, didn't buy a domain for it or advertise it on Reddit or Show HN. But now I know it CAN be done. Curiosity sated.
- latexr 6mo ago
  I don’t see what that has to do with “when did we stop liking to learn”, which is the only point I’m addressing. My point has nothing to do with AI and it doesn’t seem like you actually learned anything from that experiment.
  - swsieber 6mo ago
    I read it more as response to your argument that it was a lack of curiosity due to over stimulation, which they responded to by citing an example of a time when they were curious while stimulated and chucked something at a vibe-coding agent to satisfy that curiosity.
    - theshrike79 6mo ago
      Yep, now I have the time to satisfy my curiosity in weird things because it doesn't take active time from me that much. Before all those curiosity brain farts would've just slipped away with "oh well, I'll never have the time to find out". Wikipedia has scratched the same itch multiple times, but from a different angle. Doing deep dives in weird stuff is so much easier with Wikipedia than it used to be when you had to go to the library and pull books from the shelves for an hour or two.
madduci 6mo ago
We also stopped learning when someone had the idea to put unrealistic deadlines in projects and tackling tech debt has been denied and the most hated activity from management.

by latexr 6mo ago

AStrangeMorrow 6mo ago

I still love learning, especially outside of tech. Been working in the ML field for over 8 years, and while I went into it because I liked the field, I did lose some interest in learning things, but mostly because of the sheer volume of publication and the rate of change. Learning stopped being something I enjoyed doing and went to something I had to do to keep up. And it just stopped having the same flavor.

gchamonlive 6mo ago

> it happened when we achieved a level of such constant stimulation (...) that we’re never bored and never engage the default mode network. I don't know... I don't disagree, but I think this has been repeated so much that I believe everyone, at least everyone that is actively participating in HN discussions is aware of this. So if we are aware of this and we consciously choose to keep engaging in dopaminergic activities, without having some time to be bored, I think it starts to become a choice. We can blame tech for starting this trend of stealing our attention, but once we become aware of this, we can only blame ourselves for perpetuating it.

therealpygon 6mo ago
Or at least, aware that this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. And yet, people are being more productive (actually productive) with AI. Release schedules are increasing, bugs are getting fixed faster, security issues identified and patched sooner, so on and so forth. I’m not denying (at all) that unused skills languish. I take issue with AI being characterized as a magic eraser that mystically makes people forget what they have already learned. I’ve just done a study and concluded that dogs gets dumber when I throw a ball. What’s my evidence? They stop staring at me to chase it. The ball definitely made them forget who I was, so we shouldn’t allow dogs to have balls anymore. Can AI make developers lazy in new ways? Of course! Why wouldn’t it? I don’t write things in ASM because I can be “lazy” and write 50x more useful instructions with a few lines of a modern language. I doubt I’d be able to write working ASM anymore without a serious refresher. Did newer languages erase my memory of ASM and make me “lazy”, or did my efforts evolve to make use of the newest technology regardless of “lost” skills?
- latexr 6mo ago
  > this argument continues to be made with tenuous evidence and anecdotes. The linked Wikipedia page has plenty of evidence and studies and you can find plenty more with a basic web search. This is not something someone just made up; if you don’t know there are a multitude of studies on the harms of social media, you haven’t looked at all. Which is fine, it’s our prerogative to not search for information, but don’t turn around and say it doesn’t exist or is anecdotal. > And yet, people are being more productive (actually productive) with AI. You said, ironically without providing evidence, in the same paragraph that you complained about evidence not being provided for something else which has plenty of it. Furthermore, there are several studies suggesting AI may in fact decrease productivity, but I’m not going to link to those because the more important point is AI has nothing to do with the conversation. The original poster mentioned AI, but this branched thread is exclusively about the “liking to learn” part.
  - addedGone 6mo ago
    [flagged]

theshrike79 6mo ago

> When you’re bored, your mind goes to places it wouldn’t otherwise go. Curiosity kicks in. Curiosity is a precursor to learning. Learning engages the brain and is fun. But it’s not fun all the time, some of it is challenging and frustrating (which is good, that’s the process that teaches you). And I love how I can go from a curious brainfart "hmm, could I do a movie catalogue app that uses a web page + phone camera + OpenAI API to identify physical DVDs by front/back cover instead of trying to find a reliable barcode database" to it actually working in maybe two hours of real time. Just paused the movie I was watching, typed the idea to Claude Code on mobile and kept watching. After the movie went back to my computer, merged the changes and tested whether it worked. It mostly did. The UI/UX was horrible etc, but the basic idea was functional. It even got some of the movie extras correctly. I didn't try to turn it into a product, didn't buy a domain for it or advertise it on Reddit or Show HN. But now I know it CAN be done. Curiosity sated.

latexr 6mo ago
I don’t see what that has to do with “when did we stop liking to learn”, which is the only point I’m addressing. My point has nothing to do with AI and it doesn’t seem like you actually learned anything from that experiment.
- swsieber 6mo ago
  I read it more as response to your argument that it was a lack of curiosity due to over stimulation, which they responded to by citing an example of a time when they were curious while stimulated and chucked something at a vibe-coding agent to satisfy that curiosity.
  - theshrike79 6mo ago
    Yep, now I have the time to satisfy my curiosity in weird things because it doesn't take active time from me that much. Before all those curiosity brain farts would've just slipped away with "oh well, I'll never have the time to find out". Wikipedia has scratched the same itch multiple times, but from a different angle. Doing deep dives in weird stuff is so much easier with Wikipedia than it used to be when you had to go to the library and pull books from the shelves for an hour or two.

madduci 6mo ago

We also stopped learning when someone had the idea to put unrealistic deadlines in projects and tackling tech debt has been denied and the most hated activity from management.