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Is anyone concerned about these services and China’s National Intelligence Law?

by yehosef 5mo ago

missedthecue 5mo ago
Not for my purposes tbh. Enjoy my shitty javascript, Xi.
- brcmthrowaway 5mo ago
  Should be TypeScript
martin_henk 5mo ago
yes. imagine getting denied at the border or something because of data you shared with deep seek,WeChat or any other china centric service
- junofan 5mo ago
  Definitely would select the frowny face if that happened.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    Might as well answer yes to the "are you a subversive" question
- 2ndorderthought 5mo ago
  Are you actually planning on travelling out of the country right now? It's probably not a good idea even if you don't use Chinese products, which by the way you definitely do.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    The people that travel out of the country are typically not the same ones aligned with the current administration. The vast majority of the MAGA base are more likely to not have a passport, while a large portion have probably never left their state.
- mannanj 5mo ago
  the US does that to you too, for not liking your opinions about particular parties or intelligence aparati.
  - inerte 5mo ago
    I think martin_henk is fully aware of that and it's why of all the examples of how a government can use your data, he picked this one...
dancemethis 5mo ago
Eh, I'd be more concerned about the Three-Letters and the One country that dropped an A-bomb.
- serf 5mo ago
  >the One country that dropped an A-bomb. i'd like to point out that the soviet RDS-3 was an airdropped A-bomb. I get that you mean 'in anger', but I don't feel that bad being a pedant against a propagandist statement that's also pedantically wrong.
  - dylan604 5mo ago
    I don't think anyone will ever be confused by the "only country to use the bomb" in this context. Your pedantry is not something to not feel bad about as it does nothing constructive to the conversation
    - orc00 5mo ago
      > the One country that dropped an A-bomb > "only country to use the bomb" I was confused. Two very different statements but I assume they refer to the US who dropped two A-bombs (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) in anger.
      - dylan604 5mo ago
        only different if you don't consider "the bomb" the way it is colloquially used. until today, i would have never considered saying "the bomb" would not have been understood as a nuclear weapon whether that was an a-bomb or an h-bomb.
2ndorderthought 5mo ago
No because China can only do so much to me as someone who doesn't live there and never will. It's the same reason why I prefer vpns that are owned by countries outside my own.
- yehosef 5mo ago
  Unless you're very careful, it's trivial to have my secrets to be sent to the LLM. If it reads your .env just to see the variable names, the secrets have been sent to the servers. Now - they probably don't care about you and your secrets - but it makes me more uncomfortable that they have them. This is true of anthropic or openai - but for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data from them than the CCP will any chinese company.
  - 0xbadcafebee 5mo ago
    > for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data US companies are required by law to hand over your data if given a warrant by USG. They don't need a warrant if they have a subpoena for less invasive data, or a FISA request. They can also ask without any justification, and see if the company will cough it up anyway (they often do). Any AI company with government contracts will want to give up data quicker so as not to threaten deals worth hundreds of millions.
  - protocolture 5mo ago
    >I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data than the CCP will any chinese company. Why? You dont think that 5 eyes cyber peeps use every advantage they can get? And on the way out leave a dusting of evidence pointing at the russkies or chinese?
  - ndiddy 5mo ago
    > but for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data from them than the CCP will any chinese company. US tech companies voluntarily give their data to the US government. Don't you remember PRISM? You think they stopped doing that? > Internal NSA presentation slides included in the various media disclosures show that the NSA could unilaterally access data and perform "extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information" with examples including email, video and voice chat, videos, photos, voice-over-IP chats (such as Skype), file transfers, and social networking details.[2] Snowden summarized that "in general, the reality is this: if an NSA, FBI, CIA, DIA, etc. analyst has access to query raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] databases, they can enter and get results for anything they want."[13]
ottomanbob 5mo ago
I mean I can't believe I have to say this explicitly but it should be assumed that any data you send to China can and will be used against our interest by the CCP...
- yehosef 5mo ago
  Yes! The only saving grace is that they have so many secrets, mine are not so important.
- cleaning 5mo ago
  "our"?
- gverrilla 5mo ago
  Same with the USA. Difference is China is not bombing brown-skinned people every so often.
- jrflowers 5mo ago
  Kicking myself when my little vibe coded widget to notify me when socks go on sale that does not and never has functioned properly is wielded as a mighty scepter to topple western hegemony
mdni007 5mo ago
No I'm more concerned with OpenAI and Anthropic AI models being used as a tool to murder brown people in the middle east for our "greatest ally".
striking 5mo ago
It's unlikely that you're special enough that someone will genuinely look through the massive amount of data produced by this system in order to target You Specifically. If you are that special you can just use another provider. From this line of reasoning, my guess is that the huge discount is not so much intended to sell the data collection system as much as it is intended to sell the model. If you had to wring a geopolitical consequence from this, it would be that the US labs producing models would be impacted by a vastly less expensive competitor.
protocolture 5mo ago
More worried about the Epstein regime
dyauspitr 5mo ago
Eh I’m using it for stuff where there is nothing proprietary or identifiable.

Is anyone concerned about these services and China’s National Intelligence Law?

by yehosef 5mo ago

Is anyone concerned about these services and China’s National Intelligence Law?

missedthecue 5mo ago

Not for my purposes tbh. Enjoy my shitty javascript, Xi.

brcmthrowaway 5mo ago
Should be TypeScript

martin_henk 5mo ago

yes. imagine getting denied at the border or something because of data you shared with deep seek,WeChat or any other china centric service

junofan 5mo ago
Definitely would select the frowny face if that happened.
- dylan604 5mo ago
  Might as well answer yes to the "are you a subversive" question
2ndorderthought 5mo ago
Are you actually planning on travelling out of the country right now? It's probably not a good idea even if you don't use Chinese products, which by the way you definitely do.
- dylan604 5mo ago
  The people that travel out of the country are typically not the same ones aligned with the current administration. The vast majority of the MAGA base are more likely to not have a passport, while a large portion have probably never left their state.
mannanj 5mo ago
the US does that to you too, for not liking your opinions about particular parties or intelligence aparati.
- inerte 5mo ago
  I think martin_henk is fully aware of that and it's why of all the examples of how a government can use your data, he picked this one...

dancemethis 5mo ago

Eh, I'd be more concerned about the Three-Letters and the One country that dropped an A-bomb.

serf 5mo ago
>the One country that dropped an A-bomb. i'd like to point out that the soviet RDS-3 was an airdropped A-bomb. I get that you mean 'in anger', but I don't feel that bad being a pedant against a propagandist statement that's also pedantically wrong.
- dylan604 5mo ago
  I don't think anyone will ever be confused by the "only country to use the bomb" in this context. Your pedantry is not something to not feel bad about as it does nothing constructive to the conversation
  - orc00 5mo ago
    > the One country that dropped an A-bomb > "only country to use the bomb" I was confused. Two very different statements but I assume they refer to the US who dropped two A-bombs (Hiroshima and Nagasaki) in anger.
    - dylan604 5mo ago
      only different if you don't consider "the bomb" the way it is colloquially used. until today, i would have never considered saying "the bomb" would not have been understood as a nuclear weapon whether that was an a-bomb or an h-bomb.

2ndorderthought 5mo ago

No because China can only do so much to me as someone who doesn't live there and never will. It's the same reason why I prefer vpns that are owned by countries outside my own.

yehosef 5mo ago
Unless you're very careful, it's trivial to have my secrets to be sent to the LLM. If it reads your .env just to see the variable names, the secrets have been sent to the servers. Now - they probably don't care about you and your secrets - but it makes me more uncomfortable that they have them. This is true of anthropic or openai - but for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data from them than the CCP will any chinese company.
- 0xbadcafebee 5mo ago
  > for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data US companies are required by law to hand over your data if given a warrant by USG. They don't need a warrant if they have a subpoena for less invasive data, or a FISA request. They can also ask without any justification, and see if the company will cough it up anyway (they often do). Any AI company with government contracts will want to give up data quicker so as not to threaten deals worth hundreds of millions.
- protocolture 5mo ago
  >I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data than the CCP will any chinese company. Why? You dont think that 5 eyes cyber peeps use every advantage they can get? And on the way out leave a dusting of evidence pointing at the russkies or chinese?
- ndiddy 5mo ago
  > but for some reason I think the us govt or anyone else will have a harder time getting to my data from them than the CCP will any chinese company. US tech companies voluntarily give their data to the US government. Don't you remember PRISM? You think they stopped doing that? > Internal NSA presentation slides included in the various media disclosures show that the NSA could unilaterally access data and perform "extensive, in-depth surveillance on live communications and stored information" with examples including email, video and voice chat, videos, photos, voice-over-IP chats (such as Skype), file transfers, and social networking details.[2] Snowden summarized that "in general, the reality is this: if an NSA, FBI, CIA, DIA, etc. analyst has access to query raw SIGINT [signals intelligence] databases, they can enter and get results for anything they want."[13]

ottomanbob 5mo ago

I mean I can't believe I have to say this explicitly but it should be assumed that any data you send to China can and will be used against our interest by the CCP...

yehosef 5mo ago
Yes! The only saving grace is that they have so many secrets, mine are not so important.
cleaning 5mo ago
"our"?
gverrilla 5mo ago
Same with the USA. Difference is China is not bombing brown-skinned people every so often.
jrflowers 5mo ago
Kicking myself when my little vibe coded widget to notify me when socks go on sale that does not and never has functioned properly is wielded as a mighty scepter to topple western hegemony

mdni007 5mo ago

No I'm more concerned with OpenAI and Anthropic AI models being used as a tool to murder brown people in the middle east for our "greatest ally".

striking 5mo ago

It's unlikely that you're special enough that someone will genuinely look through the massive amount of data produced by this system in order to target You Specifically. If you are that special you can just use another provider. From this line of reasoning, my guess is that the huge discount is not so much intended to sell the data collection system as much as it is intended to sell the model. If you had to wring a geopolitical consequence from this, it would be that the US labs producing models would be impacted by a vastly less expensive competitor.

protocolture 5mo ago

More worried about the Epstein regime

dyauspitr 5mo ago

Eh I’m using it for stuff where there is nothing proprietary or identifiable.