6 ms·

I'm no UEX expert.. Then let me enlighten you. Your ctrl-alt-delete example is poor due to the fact and this is backed up by a Bill Gates interview that that c

by kimmel 14y ago

I'm no UEX expert.. Then let me enlighten you. Your ctrl-alt-delete example is poor due to the fact and this is backed up by a Bill Gates interview that that command was meant for debugging and was not supposed to ship in the final product. People started using it and they had to leave it in. Some music players do not use space for pause/resume. As for clicking and zooming, these things are so intuitive that children can learn on their own how to do these simple tasks. OLPC and other organizations air drop laptops into Africa and people who have never a seen a computer get them and teach themselves how to use it and how to read.

WayneDB 14y ago
And yet OS X, the OS that is lauded by many around here to have an excellent UX, has so many hidden controls that nobody could possibly remember them all. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343
- sbuk 14y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't follow.
  - eddieroger 14y ago
    I think I did. The argument here was "well, if Apple can assume that users are going to learn a list of shortcuts, why can't Microsoft." The answer is because the keyboard shortcuts on OS X are actually shortcuts, not required for using the operating system. The gestures Microsoft has incorporated in to Win8 are the only way of doing things, whereas I can do things a few different ways on OS X. Let's stick with closing an app. Apparently the gesture is swiping from top to bottom on Win8. On OS X, I can do that by clicking the red button (arguably the most intuitive method), by going to the File menu, or the keyboard shortcut, Command-W.
    - WayneDB 14y ago
      OS X shortcuts are actually shortcuts, except when they're not... How about Command-Tab? There's only one way to access that functionality. How do you capture a screen in OS X without the secret "shortcut" keys or the command-line? How about ejecting a secondary optical drive? Zooming in and out?
      - AlexandrB 14y ago
        The Dock generally displays all running apps, you can just click on one. I agree about the screenshot one - but this is often a power-user use case. There are a bunch of ways to eject a drive: 1. little eject button in Finder, 2. Right click on drive on desktop -> Eject, 3. Drag drive from desktop to Recycle Bin (this one is weird, but intuitive for long-time Mac users I guess). I admit I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "secondary" optical drive. System-wide zoom is mega-situational. I'm sure it's useful for those with visual impairment, but I've never seen anyone use it nor have I had use for it myself. This is like complaining that high-contrast mode in Windows does not have an easy-to-access menu.
        elarkin 14y ago
        On my mac my keyboard has an eject button right next to f12(volume up). If I press that then the primary disk drive ejects its disk. If I had two disk drives, I'm not sure which it would eject. I suspect that this is what WayneDB was referring to.
        chris_wot 14y ago
        To chime in on the screenshot issue - the only real way around a shortcut is to have some sort of Window... And you'd have to have some sort of setting that hides the window. I think Gnome has something like that.
      - unconed 14y ago
        Screenshot: you use grab.app, which is included in the utilities folder. OS X has shortcuts, yes, but at least they all give consistent, immediate feedback, something Windows, Android and the various Linux desktops still don't get right.

by kimmel 14y ago

WayneDB 14y ago

And yet OS X, the OS that is lauded by many around here to have an excellent UX, has so many hidden controls that nobody could possibly remember them all. http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343 http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343

sbuk 14y ago
I'm sorry, I don't follow.
- eddieroger 14y ago
  I think I did. The argument here was "well, if Apple can assume that users are going to learn a list of shortcuts, why can't Microsoft." The answer is because the keyboard shortcuts on OS X are actually shortcuts, not required for using the operating system. The gestures Microsoft has incorporated in to Win8 are the only way of doing things, whereas I can do things a few different ways on OS X. Let's stick with closing an app. Apparently the gesture is swiping from top to bottom on Win8. On OS X, I can do that by clicking the red button (arguably the most intuitive method), by going to the File menu, or the keyboard shortcut, Command-W.
  - WayneDB 14y ago
    OS X shortcuts are actually shortcuts, except when they're not... How about Command-Tab? There's only one way to access that functionality. How do you capture a screen in OS X without the secret "shortcut" keys or the command-line? How about ejecting a secondary optical drive? Zooming in and out?
    - AlexandrB 14y ago
      The Dock generally displays all running apps, you can just click on one. I agree about the screenshot one - but this is often a power-user use case. There are a bunch of ways to eject a drive: 1. little eject button in Finder, 2. Right click on drive on desktop -> Eject, 3. Drag drive from desktop to Recycle Bin (this one is weird, but intuitive for long-time Mac users I guess). I admit I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "secondary" optical drive. System-wide zoom is mega-situational. I'm sure it's useful for those with visual impairment, but I've never seen anyone use it nor have I had use for it myself. This is like complaining that high-contrast mode in Windows does not have an easy-to-access menu.
      - elarkin 14y ago
        On my mac my keyboard has an eject button right next to f12(volume up). If I press that then the primary disk drive ejects its disk. If I had two disk drives, I'm not sure which it would eject. I suspect that this is what WayneDB was referring to.
        chris_wot 14y ago
        To chime in on the screenshot issue - the only real way around a shortcut is to have some sort of Window... And you'd have to have some sort of setting that hides the window. I think Gnome has something like that.
    - unconed 14y ago
      Screenshot: you use grab.app, which is included in the utilities folder. OS X has shortcuts, yes, but at least they all give consistent, immediate feedback, something Windows, Android and the various Linux desktops still don't get right.