8 ms·

BYD has pretty amazing tech to be honest, but putting protectionism as an argument against the US and pro BYD in the same sentence is naive at best. The CCP all

by baq 6mo ago

BYD has pretty amazing tech to be honest, but putting protectionism as an argument against the US and pro BYD in the same sentence is naive at best. The CCP allowed BYD to exist and the CCP can end BYD in a single weekend regardless of any human right concerns elsewhere.

dhosek 6mo ago
I may end up living outside the US next year (was going to be this year but it’s been postponed) and when I was investigating auto options, I’ve been severely tempted by the BYD Seal as a replacement for my Prius. All the reviews I’ve found have been positive and while I’m not a big fan of the compromises made in the display mount for the useless automatic rotation feature, it’s quite tempting. I’m torn between just getting a new Prius or spending an additional 8K for the Seal. I don’t know that I’ll drive enough for the difference in cost to add up (or, for that matter, to justify buying a car at all, but that’s a question for a different day), but I really like the idea of not contributing to the pollution in the urban area I’d be living. Option C would be the plugin hybrid version of the Seal which would be cheaper than the Prius.
- soperj 6mo ago
  Where outside the US? You might be fine with just a bike and transit.
  - dhosek 6mo ago
    Mexico City. The big gotcha is that I have two kids and an ex-wife who will be living a few miles away so there will be 1–4 times per week that I’ll need to manage their transport between homes. The kids are the main reason I own a car now.
lostlogin 6mo ago
> the CCP can end BYD in a single weekend Seeing the way tech companies behave makes me think they fear Trump the same way. for example, Tim Apple certainly crawls up Trumps arse.
- phainopepla2 6mo ago
  I don't mean to downplay Trump's strongarming of industry or the obsequiousness shown by tech leaders, but let's be real, it's not remotely the same level of control.
  - mghackerlady 6mo ago
    the government is basically subservient to him, and there isn't anything stopping it from making a company cease to exist other than the status quo. If, for whatever reason, him (or in his absence the rest of the government) decide they don't want it to exist, it won't exist. It might not be as explicit as how the CCP does it, but it will have the same result
    - phainopepla2 6mo ago
      This might be true for small companies, but it's delusional to think that Trump could unilaterally put an end to one of the major tech companies. It would be a huge legal, political and financial battle, at a minimum. Either you're overestimating Trump's power or underestimating the power of the tech companies.
      - mrexcess 6mo ago
        Given the Trump administration’s actions against private industry from TikTok, to Anthropic, to a hundred other examples from auto makers to air conditioning manufacturers, is it fair to deem it delusional to think he might possibly succeed? Good luck suing the White House, sovereign immunity basically makes this impossible in most cases.
        mindslight 6mo ago
        While sovereign immunity is a problem in and of itself that must be reformed, the real problem here is the illegitimate supplicants on the Supreme Council.
  - 6mo ago
threethirtytwo 6mo ago
The US has thousands of atrocities under its belt. For this aspect, the US and China tie in terms of the leaderboard.
vkou 6mo ago
The US can end any of its trillion dollar companies overnight. Ask anthropic how much they were looking forward to being on the receiving end of the orange gibbon's ire.
- lenerdenator 6mo ago
  That's pretty much everywhere, especially China. If you have ambitions that are contrary to that of the Party, well, they're going to get what they want, one way or another. It doesn't matter if you don't want to deal your AI to the military or if you'd rather not sell your home so that a highway can be built over the lot.
  - vkou 6mo ago
    Some countries have stronger rule of law protections and social customs that enforce them, but the US has been on a speed run to dismantle all of them in the past year.
    - _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
      I think we've just been on a speed run to refresh our collective memory why we do things/have the systems we have/the rules/laws we have. I am hopeful it will cause a civic improvement long term at the expense of a very high cost that was not worth it. But we've been on a long course of removing civics/western civ classes from school/requirements so this is the alternative, to relive the reasons for why we do things the way we do.
      - mindslight 6mo ago
        Even when we "refresh our memory", all of the longstanding problems that led to the blind destructive anger are still going to exist. So at best we will have refreshed our memory to a state of conservatism [0] where we just accept all of those problems as not too bad. Plus honestly do you think the people that voted for (and continue to support!) Trump really value intellectual honesty or have any kind of memory? Four years is all it took for them to "forget" what a disaster his first term was. The only things I see coming down the line are more rationalization and scapegoating. [0] actual conservatism, not the dishonest use of the label by reactionaries/fascists to cover for their radical agenda
roughly 6mo ago
And, more to the point, BYD exists because the CCP has been aggressively protectionist of its domestic companies and has been strongly involved in growing, supporting, and protecting its domestic industry to ensure it has one. BYD is not a cautionary tale about protectionism, it's a sales pitch for it.
- moi2388 6mo ago
  No, it is not. From mass recalls to faking sales targets and finances, BYD is actually facing serious problems. As soon as their benefits stop they are going the way of Evergrande
  - cogman10 6mo ago
    These aren't things unknown to other car manufacturers. Tesla, in particular, has suffered from mass recalls and faking sales. It also only really exists as a company because of government investment.
- margalabargala 6mo ago
  Well, different kinds of protectionism. The CCP's protectionism is because China is going for a cultural victory. It wants Chinese products to be available and inexpensive and purchased around the world. It puts resources to that end. The US's protectionism is for the enrichment of the CEO, board members, stockholders, and Executive Branch's family members. It wants to protect the domestic market from sending money somewhere other than the relatives of the people in power. While they're both "protectionism" they're not the same policies.
  - anonylizard 6mo ago
    It is just sad that commentary like this even exists. I sincerely am curious of the education that produces sentences like this. On one hand it is articulate and educated, on the other hand its amazing that one can think China is doing this out of charity and not wiping out its competitors one after the other.
mghackerlady 6mo ago
Running a business isn't a human right. Also, I hate the conflation people have that the ability for the CCP to do something means it would. Furthermore, the party in socialist states is basically just the government. It being called a party and being explicitly ideological in function isn't, in practice, very different from the US having something called the federal government that has a constitutional ideology
- holmesworcester 6mo ago
  Doing anything you want to do that does not harm anyone else, and helps some, is most certainly a human right. To arbitrarily repress this most basic impulse, the one to go after a dream to make better ways to do things, is severely anti-human. Most businesses are in this category.
  - mghackerlady 6mo ago
    the problem is that it does harm people, at least at the large scale. And china exists because of that harm >dream to make better ways to do things The inability to exploit other peoples labor to achieve that doesn't mean those things are denied

by baq 6mo ago

dhosek 6mo ago

I may end up living outside the US next year (was going to be this year but it’s been postponed) and when I was investigating auto options, I’ve been severely tempted by the BYD Seal as a replacement for my Prius. All the reviews I’ve found have been positive and while I’m not a big fan of the compromises made in the display mount for the useless automatic rotation feature, it’s quite tempting. I’m torn between just getting a new Prius or spending an additional 8K for the Seal. I don’t know that I’ll drive enough for the difference in cost to add up (or, for that matter, to justify buying a car at all, but that’s a question for a different day), but I really like the idea of not contributing to the pollution in the urban area I’d be living. Option C would be the plugin hybrid version of the Seal which would be cheaper than the Prius.

soperj 6mo ago
Where outside the US? You might be fine with just a bike and transit.
- dhosek 6mo ago
  Mexico City. The big gotcha is that I have two kids and an ex-wife who will be living a few miles away so there will be 1–4 times per week that I’ll need to manage their transport between homes. The kids are the main reason I own a car now.

lostlogin 6mo ago

> the CCP can end BYD in a single weekend Seeing the way tech companies behave makes me think they fear Trump the same way. for example, Tim Apple certainly crawls up Trumps arse.

phainopepla2 6mo ago
I don't mean to downplay Trump's strongarming of industry or the obsequiousness shown by tech leaders, but let's be real, it's not remotely the same level of control.
- mghackerlady 6mo ago
  the government is basically subservient to him, and there isn't anything stopping it from making a company cease to exist other than the status quo. If, for whatever reason, him (or in his absence the rest of the government) decide they don't want it to exist, it won't exist. It might not be as explicit as how the CCP does it, but it will have the same result
  - phainopepla2 6mo ago
    This might be true for small companies, but it's delusional to think that Trump could unilaterally put an end to one of the major tech companies. It would be a huge legal, political and financial battle, at a minimum. Either you're overestimating Trump's power or underestimating the power of the tech companies.
    - mrexcess 6mo ago
      Given the Trump administration’s actions against private industry from TikTok, to Anthropic, to a hundred other examples from auto makers to air conditioning manufacturers, is it fair to deem it delusional to think he might possibly succeed? Good luck suing the White House, sovereign immunity basically makes this impossible in most cases.
      - mindslight 6mo ago
        While sovereign immunity is a problem in and of itself that must be reformed, the real problem here is the illegitimate supplicants on the Supreme Council.
- 6mo ago

threethirtytwo 6mo ago

The US has thousands of atrocities under its belt. For this aspect, the US and China tie in terms of the leaderboard.

vkou 6mo ago

The US can end any of its trillion dollar companies overnight. Ask anthropic how much they were looking forward to being on the receiving end of the orange gibbon's ire.

lenerdenator 6mo ago
That's pretty much everywhere, especially China. If you have ambitions that are contrary to that of the Party, well, they're going to get what they want, one way or another. It doesn't matter if you don't want to deal your AI to the military or if you'd rather not sell your home so that a highway can be built over the lot.
- vkou 6mo ago
  Some countries have stronger rule of law protections and social customs that enforce them, but the US has been on a speed run to dismantle all of them in the past year.
  - _DeadFred_ 6mo ago
    I think we've just been on a speed run to refresh our collective memory why we do things/have the systems we have/the rules/laws we have. I am hopeful it will cause a civic improvement long term at the expense of a very high cost that was not worth it. But we've been on a long course of removing civics/western civ classes from school/requirements so this is the alternative, to relive the reasons for why we do things the way we do.
    - mindslight 6mo ago
      Even when we "refresh our memory", all of the longstanding problems that led to the blind destructive anger are still going to exist. So at best we will have refreshed our memory to a state of conservatism [0] where we just accept all of those problems as not too bad. Plus honestly do you think the people that voted for (and continue to support!) Trump really value intellectual honesty or have any kind of memory? Four years is all it took for them to "forget" what a disaster his first term was. The only things I see coming down the line are more rationalization and scapegoating. [0] actual conservatism, not the dishonest use of the label by reactionaries/fascists to cover for their radical agenda

roughly 6mo ago

And, more to the point, BYD exists because the CCP has been aggressively protectionist of its domestic companies and has been strongly involved in growing, supporting, and protecting its domestic industry to ensure it has one. BYD is not a cautionary tale about protectionism, it's a sales pitch for it.

moi2388 6mo ago
No, it is not. From mass recalls to faking sales targets and finances, BYD is actually facing serious problems. As soon as their benefits stop they are going the way of Evergrande
- cogman10 6mo ago
  These aren't things unknown to other car manufacturers. Tesla, in particular, has suffered from mass recalls and faking sales. It also only really exists as a company because of government investment.
margalabargala 6mo ago
Well, different kinds of protectionism. The CCP's protectionism is because China is going for a cultural victory. It wants Chinese products to be available and inexpensive and purchased around the world. It puts resources to that end. The US's protectionism is for the enrichment of the CEO, board members, stockholders, and Executive Branch's family members. It wants to protect the domestic market from sending money somewhere other than the relatives of the people in power. While they're both "protectionism" they're not the same policies.
- anonylizard 6mo ago
  It is just sad that commentary like this even exists. I sincerely am curious of the education that produces sentences like this. On one hand it is articulate and educated, on the other hand its amazing that one can think China is doing this out of charity and not wiping out its competitors one after the other.

mghackerlady 6mo ago

Running a business isn't a human right. Also, I hate the conflation people have that the ability for the CCP to do something means it would. Furthermore, the party in socialist states is basically just the government. It being called a party and being explicitly ideological in function isn't, in practice, very different from the US having something called the federal government that has a constitutional ideology

holmesworcester 6mo ago
Doing anything you want to do that does not harm anyone else, and helps some, is most certainly a human right. To arbitrarily repress this most basic impulse, the one to go after a dream to make better ways to do things, is severely anti-human. Most businesses are in this category.
- mghackerlady 6mo ago
  the problem is that it does harm people, at least at the large scale. And china exists because of that harm >dream to make better ways to do things The inability to exploit other peoples labor to achieve that doesn't mean those things are denied