5 ms·

I've been saying for years that it does not make sense to browse the web on a smartphone. Eventually things will get bad enough that people will agree with me.

fsflover 5mo ago
Smartphone is just a small computer. I don't see hiw what you say makes sense.
- everdrive 5mo ago
  It's a small computer that I don't really control with a horrible UI, horrible privacy, and nothing but perverse incentives. ("download the app!")
  - esseph 5mo ago
    Sounds like Windows
    - xp84 5mo ago
      And Mac
  - Forgeties79 5mo ago
    There’s no going back unfortunately. There’s no world where smartphones go away barring a new tech as significant and useful as a smartphone.
    - fsflover 5mo ago
      Why are you so sure? Have a look at Librem 5 and Pinephone.
      - Forgeties79 5mo ago
        I’m familiar with projects like them. I just don’t think any of them are going to break through in a meaningful way anytime soon, if ever. They have very niche markets. I hope they are always an option though.
        handedness 5mo ago
        The prospects for growth are better than ever. GrapheneOS by installer download stats looks to have approximately a quarter of a million users, and the new Motorola partnership should cause that to increase significantly. If nothing else, it will be a major OEM shipping a non-customer-hostile mobile OS officially for the first time in ages, and Motorola's reach is significant: https://www.androidpolice.com/motorola-razr-drives-foldable-other-success/ https://www.androidpolice.com/motorola-razr-drives-foldable-...
        Forgeties79 5mo ago
        Graphene is still tied directly to Android and Pixel devices. It is always at risk. Good luck if Google decides they don’t like the project enough. I went through that nonsense with Canon and magic lantern years ago. Firmware 2.3 was specifically designed to break it on all DSLR’s
        handedness 5mo ago
        The Magic Lantern Canon thing was terrible. Although I heard it is back, for whatever that is worth. But that is a fair concern. While GrapheneOS will continue to support Pixel devices as long as they can, they will not be beholden to Pixel devices once the Motorola partnership is up and running. They will be beholden to Motorola, instead! But it is a non-exclusive partnership and it sounds like the intention is to move beyond a single OEM. I am hoping that within a few years we see a small number of OEMs all meeting the device requirements GrapheneOS has set, with real consumer choice and more room for the project to maneuver as it sees fit. In terms of being tied to AOSP, that is a given for the near term. It is still the best option out there and offers the most robust existing ecosystem of apps that has both FOSS options and highly useful closed source options. Major banks are not going to tell Motorola that their customers can't use their banking apps, though I still use 4 or 5 major banking apps on my GrapheneOS devices without issue beyond one bug where it was quickly fixed. Longer term, an open source hypervisor model sounds like the eventual goal: https://grapheneos.org/faq#roadmap https://grapheneos.org/faq#roadmap That will probably happen before modern chipset makers open source their blobs (never?), so I view that as a great compromise that should result in devices that are even more secure, even more private, but still usable by people who live in a society. And it will reduce the dependency on Google significantly as it will give room to non-AOSP apps to run on contemporary hardware with contemporary security.
  - pocksuppet 5mo ago
    You need LineageOS or GrapheneOS
    - fsflover 5mo ago
      Or Mobian, or PureOS, or postmarketOS.
    - everdrive 5mo ago
      I went down this path once. I researched a phone which should work with lineageOS. When I received it, I had to find some archaic website and _ask permission_ from a vendor to have the phone unlocked. From there, I tried to image it from adb and using "guides" (ie, forum posts) and nothing that worked for everyone else ever worked for me. On paper, installing an aftermarket OS on a phone is not much more difficult than installing an aftermarket OS on a computer. In practice, it's incredibly frustrating and a bit of a crap shoot.
UqWBcuFx6NV4r 5mo ago
“On an infinite timescale, I’m eventually right, so it never makes sense to not heed my advice” is silly. We’re all going to die eventually so it’s not worth browsing the web on any device.

fsflover 5mo ago

Smartphone is just a small computer. I don't see hiw what you say makes sense.

everdrive 5mo ago
It's a small computer that I don't really control with a horrible UI, horrible privacy, and nothing but perverse incentives. ("download the app!")
- esseph 5mo ago
  Sounds like Windows
  - xp84 5mo ago
    And Mac
- Forgeties79 5mo ago
  There’s no going back unfortunately. There’s no world where smartphones go away barring a new tech as significant and useful as a smartphone.
  - fsflover 5mo ago
    Why are you so sure? Have a look at Librem 5 and Pinephone.
    - Forgeties79 5mo ago
      I’m familiar with projects like them. I just don’t think any of them are going to break through in a meaningful way anytime soon, if ever. They have very niche markets. I hope they are always an option though.
      - handedness 5mo ago
        The prospects for growth are better than ever. GrapheneOS by installer download stats looks to have approximately a quarter of a million users, and the new Motorola partnership should cause that to increase significantly. If nothing else, it will be a major OEM shipping a non-customer-hostile mobile OS officially for the first time in ages, and Motorola's reach is significant: https://www.androidpolice.com/motorola-razr-drives-foldable-other-success/ https://www.androidpolice.com/motorola-razr-drives-foldable-...
        Forgeties79 5mo ago
        Graphene is still tied directly to Android and Pixel devices. It is always at risk. Good luck if Google decides they don’t like the project enough. I went through that nonsense with Canon and magic lantern years ago. Firmware 2.3 was specifically designed to break it on all DSLR’s
        handedness 5mo ago
        The Magic Lantern Canon thing was terrible. Although I heard it is back, for whatever that is worth. But that is a fair concern. While GrapheneOS will continue to support Pixel devices as long as they can, they will not be beholden to Pixel devices once the Motorola partnership is up and running. They will be beholden to Motorola, instead! But it is a non-exclusive partnership and it sounds like the intention is to move beyond a single OEM. I am hoping that within a few years we see a small number of OEMs all meeting the device requirements GrapheneOS has set, with real consumer choice and more room for the project to maneuver as it sees fit. In terms of being tied to AOSP, that is a given for the near term. It is still the best option out there and offers the most robust existing ecosystem of apps that has both FOSS options and highly useful closed source options. Major banks are not going to tell Motorola that their customers can't use their banking apps, though I still use 4 or 5 major banking apps on my GrapheneOS devices without issue beyond one bug where it was quickly fixed. Longer term, an open source hypervisor model sounds like the eventual goal: https://grapheneos.org/faq#roadmap https://grapheneos.org/faq#roadmap That will probably happen before modern chipset makers open source their blobs (never?), so I view that as a great compromise that should result in devices that are even more secure, even more private, but still usable by people who live in a society. And it will reduce the dependency on Google significantly as it will give room to non-AOSP apps to run on contemporary hardware with contemporary security.
- pocksuppet 5mo ago
  You need LineageOS or GrapheneOS
  - fsflover 5mo ago
    Or Mobian, or PureOS, or postmarketOS.
  - everdrive 5mo ago
    I went down this path once. I researched a phone which should work with lineageOS. When I received it, I had to find some archaic website and _ask permission_ from a vendor to have the phone unlocked. From there, I tried to image it from adb and using "guides" (ie, forum posts) and nothing that worked for everyone else ever worked for me. On paper, installing an aftermarket OS on a phone is not much more difficult than installing an aftermarket OS on a computer. In practice, it's incredibly frustrating and a bit of a crap shoot.

UqWBcuFx6NV4r 5mo ago

“On an infinite timescale, I’m eventually right, so it never makes sense to not heed my advice” is silly. We’re all going to die eventually so it’s not worth browsing the web on any device.