5 ms·

Long story short --- what he discovered is that using Monero is risky and far less user friendly than physical fiat/cash.

Cider9986 6mo ago
I love all the online businesses that accept cash by mail for their services.
- jqpabc123 6mo ago
  I especially love how cash acceptance can serve as a way to separate services that actually provide privacy from those that talk about it but really don't. In other words, accepting cash is easy and costs nothing. So providers that don't are questionable in my opinion. For example, my VPN provider has no idea who I am. No personal info is required (not even email) to sign up and obtain an ID and key. I simply send cash along with my ID to activate/renew. Way easier/simpler than crypto and if you really think about it, no more risky either. How would you legally prove you made an anonymous crypto payment and it was received?
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    >I especially love how cash acceptance can serve as a way to separate services that actually provide privacy from those that talk about it but really don't. This makes no sense. Many services would not be able to dox themselves by giving a mailbox to accept cash. Sending cash by mail is risky and has high fees. Can I send you some cash? Please leave your address in this thread. Maybe I don't want to because I would have to pay ~5 dollars to get an insured and tracked package to send the cash. That is not economical for a $1 payment or a $100 payment. I could send you $1 in Monero for a $0.01 fee. It does't prove a service "actually provides privacy" from one that "talks about it but doesn't" if they accept cash. A service should be evaluated based on the service, not whether they accept cash, as I prove, it is inconvenient and unnecessary to accept it as a privacy respecting service. >In other words, accepting cash is easy and costs nothing. So providers that don't are questionable in my opinion. Accepting cash is much harder than accepting crypto and is very expensive for both the sender and receiver. Receivers have to deal with carrying around something that can be easily stolen so they must put in expensive protections against that like Bank accounts (no privacy and expensive) or safes (expensive and not secure) or get robbed (very expensive). I don't think it is questionable to not accept such and antiquated and slow payment method which requires huge setup to use, as well as less anonymity. Cash is not as anonymous as Monero because cash has serial numbers which are constantly recorded by banks and businesses. MullvadVPN even gives a 10% discount for paying with crypto, presumably because it is more convenient for them than other options or to promote their customers spending privately. >For example, my VPN provider has no idea who I am. Can they not get your DNA from your cash and letter? They can see the serial number and could collaborate with a bank to figure out who you are. What if your package gets lost in the mail? Did you have insurance? Do you not need to give your ID to the government or a corporation to get your money back if your package is lost? What if you are a journalist and you are in Iran? Can you send cash to MullvadVPN by mail? In Russia, mail is regularly opened and inspected, so it is not safe to send cash by mail. What about people that live places where mail can't be sent anonymously? Do you think the government loves that people can just drop letters in the mail without putting their real identity on it? They don't and in much of the world there is ubiquitous IRL surveillance making sending mail anonymously impossible. There are many places where cash is being accepted less, or restricted. In the UK, Visa spent huge sums getting businesses to not accept cash. In the USA, it is illegal to pay more than 10,000 dollars in cash without KYC and reporting it. > No personal info is required (not even email) to sign up and obtain an ID and key. I simply send cash along with my ID to activate/renew. That is not a benefit over Monero–it is the same, while Monero is slightly better, I agree the differences are minimal. The bigger differences is usability, inconvenience, fees, and risk of cash. >Way easier/simpler than crypto and if you really think about it, no more risky either. I don't "really think about it". Could you make the argument that it is easier/simpler? Have you used Monero? It is very simple and easy to use and not risky. Cash is riskier. It is expressly not recommended to send cash by mail. How do you prove that someone received your cash and isn't just lying to take your cash and deny giving you your bananas? What accountability do they have? Receiver offers their address so you can send them mail for the bananas. Require both parties to record their entire process with their phones? That seems good, let's see how that plays out. I record packaging the cash and dropping it in the mailbox, you record receiving the cash. Great, we proved that the transaction occurred. Wait, what if you try to scam me by saying you didn't receive it–that's what we are trying to prevent anyway. I record sending it and there is tracking from the postal company that proves that the cash was delivered to the address you gave me. I proved it, but you still deny it. What can I do? There is nothing I can do, the cash is fully in your possession. There is no way to force you to send me my bananas I bought. We could both send our goods to a mediator, to let them then send on our packages of cash and bananas, but that introduces significantly more fees, and what's stopping the mediator from just taking the cash and bananas? Monero solves this with 2/3 multi-sig escrow wallets. A neutral mediator, you, and me hold keys to a multi-sig wallet. I put the money into the wallet to pay you for your bananas. The funds are not released until 2/3 parties agree to release them. You don't get the Monero until my bananas arrive and I agree to pay you. If you don't send the bananas, I can prove this to the mediator and now we have 2/3 parties and I can get my Monero back. The mediator can't stop the payment from going through if both you and me agree to release the funds. An older family member of mine figured it out easily. Just show your QR code/address to receive a payment, just scan a QR code/paste an address and choose how much to send. In fact, it is a lot easier to onboard someone to crypto because they don't have to wait for the bank to approve them, don't have to give over documents, transactions happen without anyones permission. Want to receive Monero? Just download an app in your phone and you are receiving payments in a few minutes. Monero doesn't require sharing your address–something that directly identifies your real identity, just to receive a payment. No, it is not easy to receive a package somewhere other than your house anonymously. > How would you legally prove you made an anonymous crypto payment and it was received? It is simple. If you, the banana seller, me, the banana buyer both cooperate fully and you give me the bananas after I say that I paid you, even if we don't share any cryptographic proof, it is reasonable for a court to believe that you wouldn't give the bananas for free, and were paid for your product. Cryptographically, all you need to do is prove to the court that the seller gave you a Monero address. Just as you could prove that someone gave you their home address. Once you have their Monero address, you can prove you sent the amount you claim by using the Transaction ID and Transaction Key. The sender sees these in their payment. Simply input the payee's Monero address, the TX ID and TX Key, and Monero will cryptographically prove and show the amount, time, fee, etc.
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    I made a payment to myself so you can see how it works to prove you sent some Monero. What you see if you are the sender Sent: 0.00025549514 XMR Date: May 7, 2026, 23:03 Height: 3669261 Fee: 0.0000307 XMR Transaction Key: 7eeac7fece12fc668f2a2d253967d9a890ad7e841cf072e624bfa436740a2d01 Transaction ID: 3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd Recipient address: 83Kg T7TN XVR7 Qkhn kStx u1jN yGmT uY7u iK1D ejaU h1bd UGT n9QE bnaE 2RYp 94JC fgWi 8JJb 8zB4 xPSo fjCy d1cG GVZ8 X7WR No Spaces: 83KgT7TNXVR7QkhnkStxu1jNyGmTuY7uiK1DejaUh1bdUGTn9QEbnaE2RYp94JCfgWi8JJb8zB4xPSofjCyd1cGGVZ8X7WR What you see if you are the reciever Recieved: 0.000025549514 XMR Date: May 7, 2026, 23:03 Height: 3669261 Fee: 0.0000307 XMR Transaction ID: 3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd Recipient address: 83Kg T7TN XVR7 Qkhn kStx u1jN yGmT uY7u iK1D ejaU h1bd UGT n9QE bnaE 2RYp 94JC fgWi 8JJb 8zB4 xPSo fjCy d1cG GVZ8 X7WR Both see that the transaction confirmed at May 7, 2026, 23:13, 10 minutes after sending. Use (https://localmonero.co/blocks https://localmonero.co/blocks) or any other blockchain explorer to prove the payment. Here is the transaction ID (found by entering transaction ID) (https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/3bb6a87dd06df838fd83439...) Here is the proven transaction by entering TX Key and Address (https://localmonero.co/blocks/tx/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd?xmraddress=83KgT7TNXVR7QkhnkStxu1jNyGmTuY7uiK1DejaUh1bdUGTn9QEbnaE2RYp94JCfgWi8JJb8zB4xPSofjCyd1cGGVZ8X7WR&txprvkey=7eeac7fece12fc668f2a2d253967d9a890ad7e841cf072e624bfa436740a2d01 https://localmonero.co/blocks/tx/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63...) The address shown below has received the following amount in this transaction: 0.000025549514 XMR
  - Cider9986 6mo ago
    I don't think you understand how Monero works–it is quite easy to use. Hopefully my messages helped explain it! I would be happy to send you a small amount of Monero so you can see that it is easy to use. Just drop an address and I'll send some your way. If I wanted to pay you with cash, would you be willing to drop your address? I am very serious about the offer, I would love to help you try it out! Even if you never use it again.

Cider9986 6mo ago

I love all the online businesses that accept cash by mail for their services.

jqpabc123 6mo ago
I especially love how cash acceptance can serve as a way to separate services that actually provide privacy from those that talk about it but really don't. In other words, accepting cash is easy and costs nothing. So providers that don't are questionable in my opinion. For example, my VPN provider has no idea who I am. No personal info is required (not even email) to sign up and obtain an ID and key. I simply send cash along with my ID to activate/renew. Way easier/simpler than crypto and if you really think about it, no more risky either. How would you legally prove you made an anonymous crypto payment and it was received?
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  >I especially love how cash acceptance can serve as a way to separate services that actually provide privacy from those that talk about it but really don't. This makes no sense. Many services would not be able to dox themselves by giving a mailbox to accept cash. Sending cash by mail is risky and has high fees. Can I send you some cash? Please leave your address in this thread. Maybe I don't want to because I would have to pay ~5 dollars to get an insured and tracked package to send the cash. That is not economical for a $1 payment or a $100 payment. I could send you $1 in Monero for a $0.01 fee. It does't prove a service "actually provides privacy" from one that "talks about it but doesn't" if they accept cash. A service should be evaluated based on the service, not whether they accept cash, as I prove, it is inconvenient and unnecessary to accept it as a privacy respecting service. >In other words, accepting cash is easy and costs nothing. So providers that don't are questionable in my opinion. Accepting cash is much harder than accepting crypto and is very expensive for both the sender and receiver. Receivers have to deal with carrying around something that can be easily stolen so they must put in expensive protections against that like Bank accounts (no privacy and expensive) or safes (expensive and not secure) or get robbed (very expensive). I don't think it is questionable to not accept such and antiquated and slow payment method which requires huge setup to use, as well as less anonymity. Cash is not as anonymous as Monero because cash has serial numbers which are constantly recorded by banks and businesses. MullvadVPN even gives a 10% discount for paying with crypto, presumably because it is more convenient for them than other options or to promote their customers spending privately. >For example, my VPN provider has no idea who I am. Can they not get your DNA from your cash and letter? They can see the serial number and could collaborate with a bank to figure out who you are. What if your package gets lost in the mail? Did you have insurance? Do you not need to give your ID to the government or a corporation to get your money back if your package is lost? What if you are a journalist and you are in Iran? Can you send cash to MullvadVPN by mail? In Russia, mail is regularly opened and inspected, so it is not safe to send cash by mail. What about people that live places where mail can't be sent anonymously? Do you think the government loves that people can just drop letters in the mail without putting their real identity on it? They don't and in much of the world there is ubiquitous IRL surveillance making sending mail anonymously impossible. There are many places where cash is being accepted less, or restricted. In the UK, Visa spent huge sums getting businesses to not accept cash. In the USA, it is illegal to pay more than 10,000 dollars in cash without KYC and reporting it. > No personal info is required (not even email) to sign up and obtain an ID and key. I simply send cash along with my ID to activate/renew. That is not a benefit over Monero–it is the same, while Monero is slightly better, I agree the differences are minimal. The bigger differences is usability, inconvenience, fees, and risk of cash. >Way easier/simpler than crypto and if you really think about it, no more risky either. I don't "really think about it". Could you make the argument that it is easier/simpler? Have you used Monero? It is very simple and easy to use and not risky. Cash is riskier. It is expressly not recommended to send cash by mail. How do you prove that someone received your cash and isn't just lying to take your cash and deny giving you your bananas? What accountability do they have? Receiver offers their address so you can send them mail for the bananas. Require both parties to record their entire process with their phones? That seems good, let's see how that plays out. I record packaging the cash and dropping it in the mailbox, you record receiving the cash. Great, we proved that the transaction occurred. Wait, what if you try to scam me by saying you didn't receive it–that's what we are trying to prevent anyway. I record sending it and there is tracking from the postal company that proves that the cash was delivered to the address you gave me. I proved it, but you still deny it. What can I do? There is nothing I can do, the cash is fully in your possession. There is no way to force you to send me my bananas I bought. We could both send our goods to a mediator, to let them then send on our packages of cash and bananas, but that introduces significantly more fees, and what's stopping the mediator from just taking the cash and bananas? Monero solves this with 2/3 multi-sig escrow wallets. A neutral mediator, you, and me hold keys to a multi-sig wallet. I put the money into the wallet to pay you for your bananas. The funds are not released until 2/3 parties agree to release them. You don't get the Monero until my bananas arrive and I agree to pay you. If you don't send the bananas, I can prove this to the mediator and now we have 2/3 parties and I can get my Monero back. The mediator can't stop the payment from going through if both you and me agree to release the funds. An older family member of mine figured it out easily. Just show your QR code/address to receive a payment, just scan a QR code/paste an address and choose how much to send. In fact, it is a lot easier to onboard someone to crypto because they don't have to wait for the bank to approve them, don't have to give over documents, transactions happen without anyones permission. Want to receive Monero? Just download an app in your phone and you are receiving payments in a few minutes. Monero doesn't require sharing your address–something that directly identifies your real identity, just to receive a payment. No, it is not easy to receive a package somewhere other than your house anonymously. > How would you legally prove you made an anonymous crypto payment and it was received? It is simple. If you, the banana seller, me, the banana buyer both cooperate fully and you give me the bananas after I say that I paid you, even if we don't share any cryptographic proof, it is reasonable for a court to believe that you wouldn't give the bananas for free, and were paid for your product. Cryptographically, all you need to do is prove to the court that the seller gave you a Monero address. Just as you could prove that someone gave you their home address. Once you have their Monero address, you can prove you sent the amount you claim by using the Transaction ID and Transaction Key. The sender sees these in their payment. Simply input the payee's Monero address, the TX ID and TX Key, and Monero will cryptographically prove and show the amount, time, fee, etc.
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  I made a payment to myself so you can see how it works to prove you sent some Monero. What you see if you are the sender Sent: 0.00025549514 XMR Date: May 7, 2026, 23:03 Height: 3669261 Fee: 0.0000307 XMR Transaction Key: 7eeac7fece12fc668f2a2d253967d9a890ad7e841cf072e624bfa436740a2d01 Transaction ID: 3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd Recipient address: 83Kg T7TN XVR7 Qkhn kStx u1jN yGmT uY7u iK1D ejaU h1bd UGT n9QE bnaE 2RYp 94JC fgWi 8JJb 8zB4 xPSo fjCy d1cG GVZ8 X7WR No Spaces: 83KgT7TNXVR7QkhnkStxu1jNyGmTuY7uiK1DejaUh1bdUGTn9QEbnaE2RYp94JCfgWi8JJb8zB4xPSofjCyd1cGGVZ8X7WR What you see if you are the reciever Recieved: 0.000025549514 XMR Date: May 7, 2026, 23:03 Height: 3669261 Fee: 0.0000307 XMR Transaction ID: 3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd Recipient address: 83Kg T7TN XVR7 Qkhn kStx u1jN yGmT uY7u iK1D ejaU h1bd UGT n9QE bnaE 2RYp 94JC fgWi 8JJb 8zB4 xPSo fjCy d1cG GVZ8 X7WR Both see that the transaction confirmed at May 7, 2026, 23:13, 10 minutes after sending. Use (https://localmonero.co/blocks https://localmonero.co/blocks) or any other blockchain explorer to prove the payment. Here is the transaction ID (found by entering transaction ID) (https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd https://localmonero.co/blocks/search/3bb6a87dd06df838fd83439...) Here is the proven transaction by entering TX Key and Address (https://localmonero.co/blocks/tx/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63d5833ead33b018c9c50ea6c5e97a8a80351fd?xmraddress=83KgT7TNXVR7QkhnkStxu1jNyGmTuY7uiK1DejaUh1bdUGTn9QEbnaE2RYp94JCfgWi8JJb8zB4xPSofjCyd1cGGVZ8X7WR&txprvkey=7eeac7fece12fc668f2a2d253967d9a890ad7e841cf072e624bfa436740a2d01 https://localmonero.co/blocks/tx/3bb6a87dd06df838fd834396f63...) The address shown below has received the following amount in this transaction: 0.000025549514 XMR
- Cider9986 6mo ago
  I don't think you understand how Monero works–it is quite easy to use. Hopefully my messages helped explain it! I would be happy to send you a small amount of Monero so you can see that it is easy to use. Just drop an address and I'll send some your way. If I wanted to pay you with cash, would you be willing to drop your address? I am very serious about the offer, I would love to help you try it out! Even if you never use it again.