5 ms·

The UO emulator scene got me into network programming. I've never seen an online game capture so many ancillary/emergent/accidental gameplay mechanics as well

by kev009 6mo ago

The UO emulator scene got me into network programming. I've never seen an online game capture so many ancillary/emergent/accidental gameplay mechanics as well as this, somehow all the 3d MMOs seemed to downgrade a lot of the interesting economics, building, exploring that UO delivered. PvP and quest type stuff is probably a lot better in other games but it was still compelling and you could realistically play solo or in a group or casually interact with randoms and effortlessly switch between these as you felt like it.

viking123 6mo ago
Maybe there is some opportunity there? Very little going on in the mmo world now tbh. Wow, old school runescape, final fantasy online, not much else worth it.
- tcbawo 6mo ago
  This game was created before virtual currency and pay to win was a thing. The potential money is probably too corrupting.
- aleph_minus_one 6mo ago
  > Wow, old school runescape, final fantasy online, not much else worth it. What about - Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR), - The Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), - Guild Wars 2 (GW2), - EVE Online, - Black Desert?
  - pitched 5mo ago
    All of them (except Eve) feel too much like WoW reskins to bother with. This is personal opinion but the feeling probably reflects why they have 1% (estimated by ChatGPT) of WoW’s subscriptions.
    - archturtle 5mo ago
      I'm enjoying GW2 a lot, I feel it has a lot of players. No matter which corner of the map you go to, you can always find people doing either open world group content or their own thing
    - singleshot_ 5mo ago
      Eve is more of an Excel reskin.
      - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
        Indeed: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/8165207770524-EVE-Online-Excel-Add-in https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/816520777052...
gww 5mo ago
A few of the older 3d MMORPGS did try to instill some of those mechanics. Examples include: 1) Asheron's Call (which had a very active mod scene and now an emulator scene). I don' think the servers are nearly as popular as UO though. 2) Shadowbane (this one was heavily guild based but it was fun being a bit of an outlaw and PvPing random people and guilds).
jghn 5mo ago
> somehow all the 3d MMOs seemed to downgrade a lot of the interesting Unfortunately two things turned out to be true: 1) Most people don't want any of this and prefer to be on rails 2) The two groups of people most attracted to a game like this wind up in a dynamic where one group will leave the game if the other is present. Whereas the 2nd group requires the 1st to want to play.
- low_tech_love 5mo ago
  The “rails” thing is very much the gist of it. Don’t get me wrong, I think classic WoW is probably one of the best games ever made, but after it came out, nobody wanted the raw experience of early online worlds anymore. Which is just life I guess.
  - jghn 5mo ago
    Yep. After I stopped UO I took a break for a few years and picked up WoW after it had already settled in for a bit. I was surprised how on rails it was. Get a quest? Well my UI plugin tells me exactly what to go. Add *any* sort of mystery or nondeterminism? People whine. This is also where I first started seeing people focusing on "end game", although it may have existed in EQ. The actual sandbox-ish game was just a warmup you blasted through in order to get to the "real game". Meanwhile I ran around solo and just explored, and did whatever weird thing I wanted.
    - low_tech_love 5mo ago
      I never got to the endgame but I solo-levelled a couple of characters in a slow pace in classic wow (pre-tbc) and it was mind blowing. The world is so well crafted, the lore, the art design, it is just fantastic. I guess if we have to be on rails at least they did it well.
- shermantanktop 5mo ago
  Who are these two groups of people? Sounds like a predator/prey situation.

by kev009 6mo ago

viking123 6mo ago

Maybe there is some opportunity there? Very little going on in the mmo world now tbh. Wow, old school runescape, final fantasy online, not much else worth it.

tcbawo 6mo ago
This game was created before virtual currency and pay to win was a thing. The potential money is probably too corrupting.
aleph_minus_one 6mo ago
> Wow, old school runescape, final fantasy online, not much else worth it. What about - Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR), - The Elder Scrolls Online (ESO), - Guild Wars 2 (GW2), - EVE Online, - Black Desert?
- pitched 5mo ago
  All of them (except Eve) feel too much like WoW reskins to bother with. This is personal opinion but the feeling probably reflects why they have 1% (estimated by ChatGPT) of WoW’s subscriptions.
  - archturtle 5mo ago
    I'm enjoying GW2 a lot, I feel it has a lot of players. No matter which corner of the map you go to, you can always find people doing either open world group content or their own thing
  - singleshot_ 5mo ago
    Eve is more of an Excel reskin.
    - aleph_minus_one 5mo ago
      Indeed: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/8165207770524-EVE-Online-Excel-Add-in https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/816520777052...

gww 5mo ago

A few of the older 3d MMORPGS did try to instill some of those mechanics. Examples include: 1) Asheron's Call (which had a very active mod scene and now an emulator scene). I don' think the servers are nearly as popular as UO though. 2) Shadowbane (this one was heavily guild based but it was fun being a bit of an outlaw and PvPing random people and guilds).

jghn 5mo ago

> somehow all the 3d MMOs seemed to downgrade a lot of the interesting Unfortunately two things turned out to be true: 1) Most people don't want any of this and prefer to be on rails 2) The two groups of people most attracted to a game like this wind up in a dynamic where one group will leave the game if the other is present. Whereas the 2nd group requires the 1st to want to play.

low_tech_love 5mo ago
The “rails” thing is very much the gist of it. Don’t get me wrong, I think classic WoW is probably one of the best games ever made, but after it came out, nobody wanted the raw experience of early online worlds anymore. Which is just life I guess.
- jghn 5mo ago
  Yep. After I stopped UO I took a break for a few years and picked up WoW after it had already settled in for a bit. I was surprised how on rails it was. Get a quest? Well my UI plugin tells me exactly what to go. Add *any* sort of mystery or nondeterminism? People whine. This is also where I first started seeing people focusing on "end game", although it may have existed in EQ. The actual sandbox-ish game was just a warmup you blasted through in order to get to the "real game". Meanwhile I ran around solo and just explored, and did whatever weird thing I wanted.
  - low_tech_love 5mo ago
    I never got to the endgame but I solo-levelled a couple of characters in a slow pace in classic wow (pre-tbc) and it was mind blowing. The world is so well crafted, the lore, the art design, it is just fantastic. I guess if we have to be on rails at least they did it well.
shermantanktop 5mo ago
Who are these two groups of people? Sounds like a predator/prey situation.