3 ms·

Do they actually have a business presence in the EU? If not, how would those rules apply to them? Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically con

by nottorp 6mo ago

Do they actually have a business presence in the EU? If not, how would those rules apply to them? Edit: tbh, the new "user friendly" idea of automatically converting US prices to the local currency of the visitor in spite of the company not having any connection to the visitor's locale always makes me think of drop shippers, not of legitimate businesses. Especially if i'm in a non USD non EUR country, I am fully aware that there are different currencies in the world, I already have an established process for converting between those currencies and it's likely to be more to my advantage than whatever Stripe offers so please cut it down.

yreg 6mo ago
They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.
- nottorp 6mo ago
  And those EU consumer protection laws apply outside the EU? I know that USers think their laws apply everywhere, but that's just a myth.
  - yreg 6mo ago
    Same goes for e.g. GDPR compliance. You need to comply with GDPR when offering services to individuals in the EU no matter where you are based.
  - echoangle 6mo ago
    In the opinion of the EU, they do as long as the customer is in the EU. Everything else is just enforcement.
  - foldr 6mo ago
    They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
  - aduty 6mo ago
    You realize that the EU as a whole believes this and actively attempts to enforce it on citizens of other countries, right?
  - pimterry 6mo ago
    Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies. If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to. There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
  - alfiedotwtf 6mo ago
    Ask Kim Dot Com about that myth
- stronglikedan 6mo ago
  > They are mandated That's nice and ideal, but unenforceable in reality unless the company has a presence in the EU.
  - bragr 6mo ago
    Genuinely asking, if someone really wanted to play that game with the EU, could the EU escalate to preventing the import of the products?
    - tremon 6mo ago
      Of course they could. The products could be impounded at customs.
  - ignoramous 6mo ago
    > unenforceable Law makers aren't stupid: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2025/772899/EPRS_ATA(2025)772899_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2025/7728... (the Hauge Convention 2019 has been ratified by the UK has been in effect ~10mo ago). The UK wants to rejoin the Lugano Convention, too; though, it remains to be seen if EFTA/EU will let them in.
- cromka 6mo ago
  > Regardless of where they are located. Absolutely not true at all.
  - echoangle 6mo ago
    Why not? Isn't that what the EU law says?
    - cromka 6mo ago
      That you have to offer that regardless where are you located? No. It doesn't say that. Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws. If you ship them from outside, like Star labs clearly does, you, as a private cotizen, can import whatever you like as long as it meets basic CE requirements.
      - echoangle 6mo ago
        > Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws. Wrong. https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/94249/are-foreign-sellers-exempt-from-consumer-protection-laws https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/94249/are-foreign-se... Shipping from outside doesn’t mean that the buyer doesn’t get protection.
        cromka 6mo ago
        How about you read all the responses there and come back with s specific answer.
      - yreg 6mo ago
        Are you claiming that the law doesn't say what we say it does or are you claiming that you can break the law without any consequences?
- drnick1 6mo ago
  > Regardless of where they are located. This is clearly nonsense. There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this.
  - echoangle 6mo ago
    > There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this. Well they can turn back shipments at customs. And they can collect fines if any leadership of the company comes to the EU. If you stay outside the EU for the rest of your life, you're probably fine.
  - yreg 6mo ago
    They can't jail you, but they can do quite a lot. They can seize your goods. They can order app stores to take down your apps. They can order payment providers to stop doing business with you in the EU. Most businesses would also prefer to avoid having outstanding fines in foreign countries even if they don't currently have presence there because it's a giant liability in case of looking for funding.
looperhacks 6mo ago
They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs. Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.
- maxerickson 6mo ago
  Wouldn't customs seizing the device be a bigger problem for the importer?
  - yreg 6mo ago
    From consumer perspective it's the problem of the seller. I would ask for a refund and if they refused I would do a chargeback. They don't have to do business in EU if they don't want to follow the rules.
- cromka 6mo ago
  > They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs. Seized by customs because they don't offer 2y warranty or include USB charger? No. That's ridiculous. You can import whatever you want.
  - deleted 6mo ago
    [deleted]
  - fuzzy2 6mo ago
    > You can import whatever you want. Quite the opposite, in fact. When customs finds that any rule, like the CE declaration on electric devices, is broken, they can and will seize such goods. You could of course attempt to circumvent or mislead customs. After all, they don't have the capacity to check all imported goods in-depth. That however would usually be a criminal offense.
    - 6mo ago
j16sdiz 6mo ago
They are a UK company.

by nottorp 6mo ago

yreg 6mo ago

They are mandated to provide 2-year legal guarantee under EU consumer protection law when they target EU consumers -> i.e. operate an eshop that ships to EU and sells in local currencies. Regardless of where they are located.

nottorp 6mo ago
And those EU consumer protection laws apply outside the EU? I know that USers think their laws apply everywhere, but that's just a myth.
- yreg 6mo ago
  Same goes for e.g. GDPR compliance. You need to comply with GDPR when offering services to individuals in the EU no matter where you are based.
- echoangle 6mo ago
  In the opinion of the EU, they do as long as the customer is in the EU. Everything else is just enforcement.
- foldr 6mo ago
  They apply to products that a company ships to the EU, yes. As another poster points out, these could (in principle at least) be seized at customs if they are noncompliant.
- aduty 6mo ago
  You realize that the EU as a whole believes this and actively attempts to enforce it on citizens of other countries, right?
- pimterry 6mo ago
  Clearly! I see how this is a bit unusual for GDPR etc in a services digital world, but for physical products it's extremely standard everywhere that local laws apply to foreign companies. If you sell medical devices (apparently even down to toothbrushes) in the USA, you have to follow FDA rules. If you sell children's toys in the EU, you've had to follow EU consumer regulations (e.g. CE mark) at least since the 90s. Going back to the 70s, if you sold a physical product in the US as a foreign company you had to follow local rules about maximum delivery times and minimum warranties. If you don't follow the rules, your shipments get blocked at customs, and any marketplaces (Amazon) selling your products get fines as well for not verifying you appropriately, so marketplaces will verify and ban your business too if you blatantly violate local rules (e.g. selling devices containing radios without FCC approval). If you're selling laptops at any scale, you need to follow the local rules for every country you ship to. There'll certainly be cases everywhere where enforcement isn't perfect (if you contact a tiny vendor in China and they ship to you directly and you sign for & pay the customs yourself, in practice you'll get away with it, or you can always travel to a country to buy a product and carry it back personally) but in the general case local regs on physical product sales are not unusual or optional at all.
- alfiedotwtf 6mo ago
  Ask Kim Dot Com about that myth
stronglikedan 6mo ago
> They are mandated That's nice and ideal, but unenforceable in reality unless the company has a presence in the EU.
- bragr 6mo ago
  Genuinely asking, if someone really wanted to play that game with the EU, could the EU escalate to preventing the import of the products?
  - tremon 6mo ago
    Of course they could. The products could be impounded at customs.
- ignoramous 6mo ago
  > unenforceable Law makers aren't stupid: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2025/772899/EPRS_ATA(2025)772899_EN.pdf https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/ATAG/2025/7728... (the Hauge Convention 2019 has been ratified by the UK has been in effect ~10mo ago). The UK wants to rejoin the Lugano Convention, too; though, it remains to be seen if EFTA/EU will let them in.
cromka 6mo ago
> Regardless of where they are located. Absolutely not true at all.
- echoangle 6mo ago
  Why not? Isn't that what the EU law says?
  - cromka 6mo ago
    That you have to offer that regardless where are you located? No. It doesn't say that. Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws. If you ship them from outside, like Star labs clearly does, you, as a private cotizen, can import whatever you like as long as it meets basic CE requirements.
    - echoangle 6mo ago
      > Only if you sell products as an EU entity are you subject to EU laws. Wrong. https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/94249/are-foreign-sellers-exempt-from-consumer-protection-laws https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/94249/are-foreign-se... Shipping from outside doesn’t mean that the buyer doesn’t get protection.
      - cromka 6mo ago
        How about you read all the responses there and come back with s specific answer.
    - yreg 6mo ago
      Are you claiming that the law doesn't say what we say it does or are you claiming that you can break the law without any consequences?
drnick1 6mo ago
> Regardless of where they are located. This is clearly nonsense. There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this.
- echoangle 6mo ago
  > There is nothing the EU can do to enforce this. Well they can turn back shipments at customs. And they can collect fines if any leadership of the company comes to the EU. If you stay outside the EU for the rest of your life, you're probably fine.
- yreg 6mo ago
  They can't jail you, but they can do quite a lot. They can seize your goods. They can order app stores to take down your apps. They can order payment providers to stop doing business with you in the EU. Most businesses would also prefer to avoid having outstanding fines in foreign countries even if they don't currently have presence there because it's a giant liability in case of looking for funding.

looperhacks 6mo ago

They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs. Tbh there are more issues if they wanted to be compliant with EU regulations. I'm fine that they aren't compliant (they aren't in the EU, after all), but it's something to be aware of when ordering from them.

maxerickson 6mo ago
Wouldn't customs seizing the device be a bigger problem for the importer?
- yreg 6mo ago
  From consumer perspective it's the problem of the seller. I would ask for a refund and if they refused I would do a chargeback. They don't have to do business in EU if they don't want to follow the rules.
cromka 6mo ago
> They sell to the EU, so they have to follow their regulations. If they don't, the devices can be seized by customs. Seized by customs because they don't offer 2y warranty or include USB charger? No. That's ridiculous. You can import whatever you want.
- deleted 6mo ago
  [deleted]
- fuzzy2 6mo ago
  > You can import whatever you want. Quite the opposite, in fact. When customs finds that any rule, like the CE declaration on electric devices, is broken, they can and will seize such goods. You could of course attempt to circumvent or mislead customs. After all, they don't have the capacity to check all imported goods in-depth. That however would usually be a criminal offense.
  - 6mo ago

j16sdiz 6mo ago

They are a UK company.